2 questions for the CR community

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  • #619189
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Today we had an interesting class in seminary. I try not to share everything I hear, as people make fun of me and that Im being brainwashed, etc.

    But this actually may interest you. Why? Well my teacher printed out a bunch of comments and stuff from….guess where? HERE! I was SHOCKED. I nearly fell out of my seat! I mean, Hashem must love me that she didn’t print anything I wrote, which was actually taken from a thread a had commented on a few years ago. In any case, besides making fun of different usernames and subtitles (which of the 6 comments-3 were Joseph lol) she explained why she did this.

    It was taken from a thread where one asked a halachic sheila. Which she claimed is only the difference between you know, getting stoned or not in the times of the beis hamikdash- someone had asked on a public forum to an anonymous faceless group. I don’t have time to tell you which thread it was, or what people were in it. I was shocked actually since one was DaasYochid, and I do respect him/her, and was upset to see a mockery of one of his comments.

    In any case I have 2 questions:

    1) Do people really ask halachic shelios here and expect to get a proper halachic ruling? Do they really care about halacha then?

    2) Do you feel upset that the CR is made a mockery of IRL from time to time? (In Real Life)

    #1224497
    iacisrmma
    Participant

    S613: Yes, I do believe that some individuals actually ask halachic shailos on this list. Most posters try to steer them to a Rov to ask the question too.

    At the same time, it is no different then what happens at various Shabbos tables or even in shul almost every day. Something is written about a halachah in the (Yated, Hamodia, name your favorite) or we learn something in the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch. We will discuss based on minhagim, what we see in practice, what our children were taught in yeshiva. If it is “nogeia l’maaseh” we ask the Rov of the shul for a psak.

    As for your second question, no. I sometimes will discuss what I see here in the CR with others.

    #1224498
    Joseph
    Participant

    I’m internationally famous! I’m famous!!

    Lilmod, another example of the international effects in real life of my commentary.

    #1224499
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Now I’m really curious which comment it was.

    #1224500
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Does the teacher regularly lurk here?

    #1224501
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    For every one example of someone asking a shailah here, I can probably find you a hundred examples of people shouting back “Ask your LOR!!!!”

    People post halachic questions here to see other people’s viewpoints. Nothing wrong with that. Your teacher had an extremely alarmist reaction. Nobody actually poskins from the CR. Frankly, I’ve always considered the “Ask your LOR” shouters to be a waste of space on a thread.

    #1224502
    Joseph
    Participant

    Shopping, was it the thread about the Chazon Ish saying that if a woman wore pants in public, and refused to desist, in the times of the Beis HaMikdash the Sanhedrin would stone her?

    #1224503
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Did she mention any on MY screen names?!? OHHH!! My curiosity it BURNING!!!!

    #1224504
    Joseph
    Participant

    One of my comments about the inappropriateness of women congregating on the streets was once quoted in a news article. I think DY’s comment was also quoted. Another poster reported finding that CR citation a few months after the story was published.

    edited-79

    #1224505
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    The CR def encouraged me to take my RL shaila’s to a rabbi after asking them for real here.

    For me the CR is a blessing and I believe that those who come to it seeking good will b’esrat Hashem reap goodness.

    Hashem is ultimately in charge and what looks like chaos or ridiculousness to one’s eye is really a masterpiece.

    #1224506
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Joseph will you please sign my autograph book here:

    ___________________________________________________________________

    Thank you!

    #1224507
    Joseph
    Participant

    *HRH Joseph, Duke of the CR*

    #1224508
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    The CR has had some good headlines for real news publications:

    “At the RCA I do shudder”

    “Alter, the Thread Titler!”

    #1224509
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I’m starting to suspect a case of a closet feminist teacher who thinks women should be allowed to wear pants, showing out-of-context CR posts to demonstrate: “look how rude and immoral THEY are! And, they think THEY’RE better!”

    I mean, what are the odds that someone who mocks DY and Joseph’s posts will be on the right?

    #1224510
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    I originally came to this site thinking there are Torah discussions all over. That’s what it should really be, or at least there really should be such a place. But someone who prints out an actual Torah discussion to mock the concept of such is narrow minded at best, and I won’t mention the worst.

    #1224511
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Why would someone be a seminary teacher if she is a closet liberal?

    As great as DY and Joseph are, is the teacher wrong for advising her students not to flock to the CR for shailot?

    Do you except a seminary teacher on the right to be encouraging her students to use the Internet?

    #1224512
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I don’t think people are flocking to the CR for shailos. If they are really taking halachah l’maaseh from here, that is a problem.

    I would like to know what she printed out and how she “mocked” CR people. If she really thinks people are getting “psak” from here, I would understand her concern, but honestly, the bigger problem would be that they don’t have a posek to turn to.

    Is she “mocking” halachic discussion? That doesn’t make sense. Is she “mocking” silly screen names? That itself is silly. Is she “mocking” use of the internet? Okay, but printing out from the internet isn’t a good way to make that point.

    So what is she mocking?

    I’m not judging, because I haven’t seen it, and I would like to be dan l’kaf z’chus that her intentions are good, but I am curious whether she really is mocking us, and what her point is.

    #1224513
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    On the one hand, as DY pointed out, we don’t know exactly what she said, so I can’t comment on her specific comments.

    However, I do think that she is right for pointing out the problems inherent with the CR as well as most “Frum” newspapers, magazines, and websites.

    I do think that there are a lot of negative aspects to the CR, and as your seminary teacher she has an obligation to point these out to you.

    I don’t think that the CR is the ideal place for a person to be whether it’s for halachic discussions or socialization or whatever. However, we don’t live in an ideal world, and for many people, this may be the best alternative for them for right now. I do think that for me, it has been a lifesaver in certain ways, and I think that is true for some of the other posters as well (perhaps in the same ways; perhaps in others).

    In terms of halachic questions, this is not the best place for them. However, I think that most of the people who ask halachic questions here are doing so because they don’t necessarily have a better option. I have mentioned in the past that although at times, I will mention that the person asking the sheilah should really ask a Rav, at the same time, I am sometimes hesitant to say that since the person asking probably does NOT have a qualified Rav to ask.

    Also, I am afraid that the Rav they choose may be problematic. There are many people around with the title Rav and the fact that someone has that title does not necessarily make them qualified to ask sheilahs too. So if I know that I know the answer to the question, I do think it makes sense for me to answer it.

    I do hope that most people realize that they can’t just trust anyone. And I hope that anyone who has the resources to do so doesn’t just rely on any “psakim” from the CR, and just uses it as a resource to be aware of potential halachic issues and solutions and sources. But the truth is, the idea of “not just trusting anyone” also applies to people IRL even if they bear the title Rabbi and have real names.

    Unfortunately, nowadays, this is a tremendous problem – there are many “Rabbanim” and “poskim” (as well as “Rabbits” and “poskot”) who have a lot of hashkafic problems and are running around giving incorrect piskei halacha. Honestly, the average CR poster who answers halachic question may very well be more qualified than many of the “Rabbis” I hear quoted in real life.

    Bottom Line: The CR is not the ideal place in general and certainly not for piskei halacha. Most people who are here are probably here because it is the best choice for them right now. As your seminary teacher, she has an obligation to guide you to the best places and steer you away from any that are less than ideal. Right now, while you are in seminary, you do have the best resources (in all areas- social, halacha, hashkafa, etc.) at your fingertips, so you probably should not need the CR.

    #1224514
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I’m dying of curiousity to know who this seminary teacher is and if she is a friend of mine. I’m also curious to know if she quoted me and if she disagreed with me.

    I do have a lot of friends who disagree with me and think I’m an apikorus. I remember once when I was teaching in a certain seminary, and one of my students was really confused because she kept going back and forth between me and another teacher (who was a friend of mine) who kept telling her that what I taught the class was wrong, so I would reexplain to her why I was right until she understood it, but then she would go back to this teacher who would tell her that what I said was kefira (okay, I’m exagerrating – she didn’t actually say it was kefira).

    It would be really funny if I know the person you are talking about and if she quoted me, and if she is someone who also disagrees with me IRL.

    #1224515
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Its well known that comments on anonymous forums can be a bit wacky. And comments on this site are really no different

    If you are taking halcha from comments here, you need to rethink that. Most people take things here with a grain of salt, and you should verify anything you think might be important

    #1224516
    Joseph
    Participant

    lilmod, the other seminary teacher who held you were wrong was more to your right hashkafically?

    #1224517
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Would you believe that there are actually people in the world who are to my right hashkafically? 🙂

    Actually, in this case, “more narrow-minded” would be a more accurate description (although she probably just thought she was being more right-wing).

    I know a lot of people who did not start out “chareidi” and become that way later on (“mitchareid”). Often, those people have a tendency to become very narrow-minded.

    Sometimes, people have a hard time distinguishing between “narrow-minded” and “right-wing”, but they really have nothing to do with each other. One can be extremely “right-wing” and extremely open-minded. Or extremely left-wing and extremely “closed-minded”.

    In the case at hand, the issue she disagreed with was actually something I had quoted in the name of Rav Moshe Aharon Stern, zatsal. Who was actually very right-wing. But not narrow-minded.

    #1224518
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I’m really curious to know what Mrs. Seminary Teacher is going to think when she sees THIS thread, and if she will recognize Shopping :).

    #1224519
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    1) Do people really ask halachic shelios here and expect to get a proper halachic ruling? Do they really care about halacha then?

    Of course. Most people know what questions need a Rav and what doesnt. Their are questions abovwe your Rav’s paygrade too for which he goes to his Rav.

    for example. IF I forgot what beracha to make on an apple does anybody really believe I cant ask in the coffee room and need to ask a Rav?

    Peopel give an answer, often sourced if it makes sense I may follow it if not, it is still interesting to bounce ideas off each other. Not every halachik questions needs the Gadol Hador’s pesak

    2) Do you feel upset that the CR is made a mockery of IRL from time to time? (In Real Life)

    Lol The coffee room is hilarious! I love solving all the worlds problems in my pajamas. OF course it is made a mockery

    ” I don’t have time to tell you which thread it was,”

    how long could it take?

    #1224520
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Shopping613,

    In any case, besides making fun of different usernames and subtitles (which of the 6 comments-3 were Joseph lol) she explained why she did this.

    Why did she feel it was necessary to make fun of the usernames? Did she explain?

    I was shocked actually since one was DaasYochid, and I do respect him/her, and was upset to see a mockery of one of his comments.

    Why did you not have time to write which thread it was, but had time to divulge this detail? It could probably be easily found by participants even with just a few descriptive words, so there’s no need to dig up the thread title, or a link, or anything.

    1) Do people really ask halachic shelios here and expect to get a proper halachic ruling? Do they really care about halacha then?

    I would agree with your instructor that it’s dangerous for someone to ask a shaila here if he/she actually intends to act on information in the responses without the guidance of a rav. I think, however, that the vast majority of questioners are not looking for a psak per se, but rather a discussion. The purpose for such a discussion depends on the asker. Perhaps s/he heard something from a friend that surprised him/her, and is curious about how widespread that position is. Perhaps an OP is afraid of how a certain shaila may come across to his/her rav, so they see what happens in the CR first. Perhaps someone wants intellectual or spiritual stimulation that comes from discussion or debate. Perhaps someone is a troll who wants to paint Orthodox Judaism in a bad light, or fight with people on the perceived “other side”. Or any sort of reason.

    Regardless of the reason for any discussion, I do think it’s important for every poster to keep in mind that the CR is not necessarily a representative sample of the frum world, and it’s impossible to know who is on the other keyboards, and what their motivations or stories are. This doesn’t mean the CR is a bad thing, but that it should be approached with a healthy perspective.

    2) Do you feel upset that the CR is made a mockery of IRL from time to time? (In Real Life)

    Not the first time the CR has been mocked, and not the last. The most ironic I’ve seen is when some bloggers have pointed to obvious troll posts on the CR as “evidence” of how backwards/ridiculous/wrong the “other side” is. As much as the active participants in the CR should maintain a healthy perspective of what it is, so should its critics and mockers 🙂

    #1224522
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Shopping, if you have time and you’re comfortable doing so, I would be curious to know which thread she mentioned and what her specific issues were.

    However, if you feel it would be counterproductive to post it (i.e. cause more laitzanus than thought-provoking discussion), then don’t.

    #1224523
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Regardless of the reason for any discussion, I do think it’s important for every poster to keep in mind that the CR is not necessarily a representative sample of the frum world,

    Indeed. This remains true even on a certain dude of the right/left divide. The group here, even of only a certain demographic, is not representative of that demographic. You have to take into account that most visitors don’t post. I know of a few frequent visitors who don’t/hardly post. So what you get is a snapshot of those posting-on-YWN-CR types from that demographic. But the posting-on-YWN-CR type doesn’t represent the non-posting-on-YWN-CR types.

    I recall, after seeing here how almost nobody actually does Kapparos with a chicken, when I walked outside I noticed large crowds doing just that!

    #1224524
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Shopping613, will you get in trouble for sharing this with us?

    Does your teacher know your CR identity?

    #1224525
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Ive actually wondered myself who most of the frummer posters were. I have quite a bit of very frum relatives and none of the have internet (Most are in Lakewood)

    #1224526
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Maybe the coffee shop internet cafes are a literal and cyber coffee room?

    #1224527
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Lakewood has a special internetless Coffee Room.

    It uses the old typewriters, it’s connected by a water pipe that’s connected to a hose that’s connected to a string that’s connected to a spring that’s connected to gear that’s connected to a stick that pounds away posts, far away, in the deep underground Coffee Room bunker.

    #1224528
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Yafeh maod – Nice they upgraded from tin cans!

    #1224529
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    I am reading ALL your comments, but haven’t had time to comment since I would never dare logging in from my school’s computer. I showed this thread to my friends and they thought it was so funny! Of course I will let you know the details, but I have literally 5 minutes a day I can be at home on a computer privately, so yeahhhhh.

    Hopefully tomorow bezrat hashem I will have time to give a detailed explanation and commentary about the thread in question.

    For now though…have a good day!

    #1224530
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Joseph- I’m happy for you. May you only share and grow your fame with others.

    RebYidd- not sure. It’s an old thread, but it was printed out this year since the time marks on her page match the ones on the CR.

    Lightbrite- agreed, but some people are just stupid apparently. She may find out lol…but she teaches in many seminaries. If only the moderaters could delete the world local from my subtitle…it leaves little room for guesswork, as very few seminaries accept local girls. (Hint, hint)

    DY: Mocking all of it. Although she went a bit extreme here, she is one of my favorite teachers and does ussually make a valid point about things, albeit an extreme one. I don’t take everything she says as face value, but I learn a lot from the discussions and things she says. She ussually makes valid, real points with much backing them up.

    I think she was a bit dramatic, but she was pretty funny. Again I think myself she took it way to seriously, but she made a whole bunch of jokes about the CR. Her introduction was: “There’s this place online, I’m not sure if you heard of it,it’s called the Yeshiva World News. Anyway, not that their news is kosher, but there’s a place called a coffee room, where anonymous strangers can “chat” with each other and discuss all the crises of the Jewish community and blame everyone without doing anything, besides the fact that the majority of the people are definitely not yeshivish”

    And I was just sitting there and I was like…this class is going to be interesting!

    Anyway- here’s is the thread:

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/chillul-hashem#post-232040

    And here are the comments:

    His Royal Lowness

    Joseph

    The biggest kind of chillul Hashem is when a Yid does something wrong in front of Yidden. In front of goyim is also wrong, but not as big a chillul Hashem as when by Yidden.

    That is completely wrong. This person obviously knows nothing about these halachot. And his royal lowness? What does that even mean?

    DaasYochid

    Chilul Hashem is for yidden, and probably for others as well. (This is what I’ve heard; if anyone has a source which either agrees or disagrees, please let me know.)

    If something is proper according to halacha (not just acceptable, but demanded by halacha), then it is a kiddush Hashem, even if it angers people. (This is pashut – think bris milah in communist Russia, R’ Akiva teaching Torah, etc.)

    Okay, so basically you don’t even have an opinion. “Let me know if you agree or disagree”. There’s halachot. It’s not an opinion! What do you mean probably for others? It’s only you know, a matter of getting stoned or not. No big deal. It’s probably okay. It’s proabably muttar. It’s like saying, this probably isn’t breaking shabbos, not big deal. I don’t need to like ask a Rav or anything cuz it’s probably ok.

    tro11

    Brother of tro22

    Chillul Hashem is applicable to a trait or action exhibited only by a large number of Jews. Chillul Hashem as most Jews view it, is more accurately a manifestation of Anti-Semitism…..

    Trolls obviously do not understand halachot either. Can a single person make a chilul hashem? (She asked us, and we all replied in unison: “yes!”)

    m in Israel

    Member

    I haven’t learned the Rambam recently, and the concept is complex, but from my memory, this is how I understand it: ………

    Your memory is fuzzy, you haven’t learned it recently, the halacha is complex, the ramifications are horrendous and you are trying to pasken?! Just say, ask a RAV!

    chayav inish livisumay

    One Tipsy Poster

    whenever you hasve the chance to make a kiddush Hashem grab at it cuz it gets rid of a chillul Hashem (thats the only way to get rid of it)

    That’s not true either. If you are drunk you should not be paskening either, especially with a username like that.

    None of these are MY comments. They are all commentary of my teacher.

    #1224531
    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    Shopping- your teacher should have read the posts a bit more carefully- or a bit more objectively anyways.

    What Joseph said is actually the same as what I learnt in school. Your teacher may have learnt otherwise but that doesn’t make this totally wrong.

    Nowhere did DaasYochid ask whether other’s agree/disagree nor did he say it’s okay to break halacha. He gave his understanding and asked whether there are any halachic sources that agree or disagree. There is a huge difference between the two.

    M in israel is not giving a psak. He is adding to the discussion by bringing up a rambam (which can push someone else to look it up and quote verbatim)

    chayav inish livisumay

    While I don’t know what the torah says about how to do teshuva for having made a chillul Hashem at one point, it certainly doesn’t hurt to grab the opportunity to make a kiddush Hashem whenever possible.

    #1224532
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Shopping.. Are you sure you’re in a Jewish school?!? What in the world is wrong with the first two posts your teacher bashed?!?

    Again, know that this place is the wild west, you and your teacher got it ALL WRONG, no one is paskening from ANYTING here, or at least should know not to. It’s meant to be a place to chill out, to let off steam, etc. (as I write every so often.. ). And it’s meant to be a eye opener. To view others’ opinions.

    But in this case, he is CERTAINLY RIGHT!!!

    #1224533
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Those are the worst things she could find to say about the CR???!!! I could have done a much better job!!

    I agree with Joseph, Daas Yochid, and chayav inish livisumay’s comments. I can’t comment on M in Israel since you didn’t actually bring his opinion.

    The only one I disagree with here is tro11. But I have certainly seen much worse. Nu, so he made a mistake – so write in a post with sources correcting him.

    Maybe the CR should have a disclaimer statement on the top: All opinions stated in the CR are simply the opinions of the random anonymous posters who may be ignoramuses, apikorsim, or worse. Please do not assume that anyone knows what he is talking about, and please do NOT posken halacha from here.

    #1224534
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    When you said that she made fun of the usernames, I was sure you were going to mention lesschumras (and MAYBE DaasYochid). What’s wrong with “His Royal Lowness”?

    #1224535
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Gananit +1

    #1224536
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    And Shopping.. Did your teacher have anything to say about MY post there? (post#2)

    #1224537
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I actually thought that DY’s comment was very humble and appropriate.

    He made sure to say that this is just what he’s heard, and he is not saying it is 100% for sure Emes, that others should let him know if they have sources either agreeing or disagreeing, and he is open to the fact that he may be wrong.

    I think it would be nice if others learned from him and posted like that more often, instead of saying something as a fact without a source.

    (like some recent posts about midrashim that are supposedly meant to be taken literally w/o a source to back it up.)

    #1224538
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    LU so glad you’re here ?

    #1224539
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Shopping.. Are you sure you’re in a Jewish school?!? What in the world is wrong with the first two posts your teacher bashed?!?

    Straw Man, let me introduce you to Mr. No True Scotsman.

    #1224541
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    I suppose someone’s looking for a new sem…

    #1224542
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Why LF?

    Sounds like she enjoys the teacher and her classes.

    #1224543
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    LB – glad someone is. not sure if I’m sticking around – just wanted to comment on this. I can’t really handle all the bullying.

    #1224544
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    LU: Oh she also had what to say about DY’s username. She loves his the most. Don’t remember what since I bashed it outta my head 🙂

    LF: Nope, you were not chosen. Maybe next time 🙂 Myabe she’ll print this one out hahahahaha. I wonder how many sem girls went on here just to find that thread and found THIS thread instead. Lol. I mean she teaches in 5-7 sems, I’m positive this class went around a few more, bigger seminaries. I guess we won’t know till a girl from one comments. Or I ask her what other sems she teaches in.

    I love my seminary, like I said-some things are extreme, but I don’t follow blindly nor do I blindly hear one extreme thing and tune a teacher out. I try to take things and hear everyone’s opinion and see what I want for myself. So it’s nice having such extreme teachers, you learn from their way of life and can actually learn so much from them and their outlook-even if you don’t want to mirror it action for action, yourself. Hear what I’m saying? My seminary is a well known seminary and if I told you which one it was, and who the principal was-you would realize that. He’s very well known and has been in chinuch for like 20 years.

    LU-I hope you aren’t offended. I’m just saying what she said.

    #1224545
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “Why LF? Sounds like she enjoys the teacher and her classes.”

    LB +1

    Shopping – hope you don’t let any of the comments here (including my own) discourage you from getting the most out of sem and from being “brainwashed”, and from respecting this teacher. She sounds like a wonderful teacher with good hashkafos whom you can probably learn a lot from (even if I don’t necessarily agree with the specific comments quoted here, as they were quoted)

    #1224546
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    LB: Just wait till her teacher reads the “Current Events”

    LuL: As I wrote to you before (in another thread) I apologize for the hurt I caused you. Please be mochel. I was not trying to be bullying. And, as opposed to your other post (in another thread), your existence shouldn’t be acknowledged, appreciated just from within the CR, a bunch of anonymous bloggers. I’m sure, pretty sure you make a big difference to those in your real life environs. I’m sure you exude depth and meaning, understanding and knowledge. I’m quite sure many have enjoyed, in real life, from your vast wellsprings of Torah.

    #1224547
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    LuL: I’m passed that. I was taught that lesson years ago here by a special poster…not sure who it was. But yeah.

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