40 days before you were conceived… you were in the womb!

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  • #619086

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    In the Gemara, it says that those first 40 days before you’re born are the time in the womb between conception to the 40th day. This is when a mother can still daven for the sex of her child.

    On the 40th day, your sex has been decided, and too your beshert. Any prayer for a boy or a girl is in vain.

    Let’s discuss 🙂


    *Citation, by Rabbi Eliezer Krohn, his shiur titled “Magazines and Siddurim in the Bathroom” —which also discussed how special it is to daven right after saying the Shabbat candle lighting bracha.

    Thank you!

    #1211129

    Joseph
    Participant

    It’s best to daven for a boy, as that’s preferable. (Apologies in advance to subscribers of modern notions of equality.)

    Baby Boy Bigger Brocho than Girl

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/are-sons-more-desirable-than-daughters

    #1211130

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    What do you want to discuss, LB? If you want to daven for a boy, you can only do so starting from now until 40 days after conception. After that you can only daven that the baby be healthy, happy, Torahdik, etc (basically everything but the gender).

    In terms of beshert, you can daven for everything but a specific person. You can’t daven to marry a specific person, but you can daven that your zivug have all the qualities that you want him to have (there’s a beautiful tefila from the Shelah, btw.). And your zivug can be changed like Leah’s was. As you become better (or daven harder, like in Leah’s case), you can be zoche to a better zivug.

    #1211131

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “It’s best to daven for a boy, as that’s preferable.”

    But only up to 40 days. After that you are not allowed to. But you can start even before you are married if you want.

    #1211132

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    LB – I just reread your title. I don’t get it. You are not in the womb before conception.

    #1211133

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    I know!

    Thanks LU! Isn’t that cool? The teaching was that this whole, “40 days before you were conceived” does not mean the literal act of conception, as we know it scientifically.

    Instead, it literally happens 40 days after the biological conception. It’s a spiritual thing. For those first 40 days, you’re in limbo, per se.

    #1211134

    SWATthatfly
    Member

    40 days before you were conceived…you were in the womb! Well, Biology 101 disagrees.

    #1211135

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    LB – Where does it say anything about “40 days before conception”?

    #1211136

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Oh wow… look at this post:

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/how-is-it-possible-40-days-b4

    And sam4321’s “Tashbatz on this issue” link (does this have the answer?):

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1381&st=&pgnum=143&hilite=

    #1211137

    golfer
    Participant

    Joseph, you are correct that one should daven for a boy.

    In a case where someone already has a son, or many sons, is it even permissible to daven for a girl?

    Not asking you to pasken here if it’s actually muttar/ assur. Just curious to hear what you (or anyone else) have to say.

    #1211138

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Golfer – I heard (but I don’t have a source) that one is supposed to or at least can daven for at least one girl in order to be able to be mekayim the Mitzvah of pru u’rvu, but they should not daven for a specific child to be a girl (I guess this meant before 40 days, or even before conception – don’t daven that the NEXT child should be a girl.)

    It’s interesting though – I know a family who only had one girl near the top of the family followed by many boys, and the mother was chalishing for another girl (which she finally has as her last child, ba”h). I wonder if she was allowed to daven to have another girl since she already had one.

    I have heard that there is an opinion that you need 2 girls and 2 boys to be mekayim pru u’rvu, so maybe that would make it muttar.

    Also, maybe the reason why it’s different when you are not davening about a specific child is that then by davening for a girl, you are not asking for a girl baby INSTEAD of a bad baby. Who said that you would be zoche to another baby at all? So it’s not instead of anything – it’s in addition. So maybe you would be allowed to do so in that case even if you were already mekayim pru u’rvu.

    #1211139

    Joseph
    Participant

    If someone already has a boy but no girls, I’d think it correct to daven for a girl as the obligation of the mitzvah of pru u’rvu is to have both.

    #1211140

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joseph – true, but from what I heard it still might be a problem to daven that a specific child be a girl, so one should ask a sheilah before davening.

    #1211141

    flowers
    Participant

    People shouldn’t make up Halacha. There is no such Halacha that you’re not allowed to daven to have a daughter.

    #1211142

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Flowers – no one said that you are not allowed to daven to have a daughter.

    #1211143

    flowers
    Participant

    Really?

    LU: “Joseph – true, but from what I heard it still might be a problem to daven that a specific child be a girl, so one should ask a sheilah before davening. “

    What does that mean?

    And what does the following mean?

    Golfer: “In a case where someone already has a son, or many sons, is it even permissible to daven for a girl?”

    #1211144

    Joseph
    Participant

    flowers: What lilmod was saying is that up to the first 40 days after conception you can daven the baby be a boy, but cannot daven that baby be a girl. But that you could daven, in general but not regarding a specific pregnancy, that you have a baby girl.

    #1211145

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Joseph, thank you for explaining. That was one point (the main one). The other is that I said “might be”.

    Regarding the quote from Golfer, it’s a question. You are allowed to ask questions in our religion.

    #1211146

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    So you are saying that you cannot daven for a girl then (during the first 40 days of the pregnancy)?

    #1211147

    flowers
    Participant

    joseph: I understood that. And it is not true. One may daven for the gender that she chooses.

    #1211148

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Flowers – you wrote that I wrote that you are not allowed to daven to have a daughter. That is not true. As you yourself pointed out, what I wrote was: “Joseph – true, but from what I heard it still might be a problem to daven that a specific child be a girl, so one should ask a sheilah before davening.” So please don’t accuse me of saying things that I didn’t.

    #1211149

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    LB – it is POSSIBLE that it is a problem to daven that that child be a girl. I am not sure, so ask a sheilah.

    It is POSSIBLE that it is permissible to daven that you have a girl (even while you are expecting) as long as you don’t daven about that specific baby. Again, ask a sheilah.

    It is also possible that it depends on whether or not you were already mekayem p’ru u’rvu (meaning that you already had one boy and one girl or 2 boys and 2 girls). Again, I don’t know, so ask a sheilah.

    #1211150

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Thanks for the explanation LU 🙂

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