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What happened today in 770 is beyond embarrassing. It’s a chillul Hashem of the highest order. Not once, but twice — in Shacharis and again in Mincha — the Rebbe’s shul was hijacked by fighting, screaming, and even punching. Yes, punching, inside the daled amos of tefillah, in the very place the Rebbe davened. The aron kodesh was closed mid-psicha, the gabbai stood helpless, mispallelim stood in shame, and police marched into 770 as if it were a street brawl.
Is this what we’ve come to? Is this the kavod of 770? Is this the kavod of the Rebbe? Every time this happens, every time the Tzfatim decide their shtick matters more than tefillah, the whole world sees Chabad as a laughingstock. What should be a place of kedusha has become a circus, and the price is the Rebbe’s honor.
Let’s stop pretending. This is not “mesirus nefesh.” It’s ego. It’s power. It’s selfishness dressed up in chassidishe slogans. To sing Yechi during psicha and then start fights when told to stop? That’s not love of the Rebbe — that’s spitting in the face of the Rebbe’s kavod.
And we, the community, stand by while 770 becomes a battleground. Guests walk in and see chaos. Bochurim grow up thinking violence in a beis midrash is normal. The chillul Hashem echoes around the globe. Enough is enough.
This is no longer just “bochurim shtick.” This is no longer just noise. When mispallelim cannot finish davening without a police presence, when an aron kodesh is opened and closed in chaos, when fists fly where tefillos should rise — we must admit: the situation is out of control. And it cannot continue.
So we are asking — no, we are demanding: where are the rabbonim? Where are the leaders? How many more days can 770 run like a hefker beis ha’medrash, without order, without discipline, without responsibility? How long will the name of Chabad be dragged through the mud while the Rebbe’s mikdash me’at is turned into a boxing ring?
The Tzfatim have proven, time and again, that they will not stop themselves. They do not respect the gabbai, they do not respect tefillah, and they do not respect the kehilla. They shout “mesirus nefesh,” but what they practice is selfishness, arrogance, and violence.
It is time — past time — for our rabbonim and our battei dinim to come out with a clear, united psak and a firm reprimand. Not vague statements. Not soft words. But a declaration that this chillul Hashem, this fighting, this disrespect for tefillah, is assur and will not be tolerated.
And words must be followed by action. Real enforcement. Real accountability. If necessary, trained personnel to keep order. Because without order, 770 will not be a mikdash me’at. It will be remembered as a madhouse. And that is the greatest chillul Hashem of all.
We owe it to the Rebbe, to ourselves, and to klal Yisrael to restore kavod and kedusha to 770. The time for silence is over. Rabbonim, hanhala, leadership: the kehilla is waiting for you to stand up and act.
Chabad has accepted a False Moshiach and a False Navi.
The name of this False Moshiach and False Navi is Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson.
They cannot be persuaded out of their false beliefs with any facts or logic.
Thousands of useful idiots defend Chabad, because Chabad does Kiruv and Chesed.
They do not understand that we can praise Chabad’s Kiruv and Chesed,
and at the same time, condemn their False Moshiach and their False Navi.Who are the Tzfatim? What’s up with them?
Never mind. I Googled them.
Chabad’s late Rebbe seems to have intentionally not named a successor Rebbe. Had he done so, this would not happen, as they would have a Rebbe to ask.
Is it still a possibility, at least theoretically, for Chabad Lubavitch to install a new Rebbe?
Time to hire a professional security company that provides security guards. And anyone that goes out of the norm or in anger mode will be removed by the security guard and steps taken from it happening again
“Is it still a possibility, at least theoretically, for Chabad Lubavitch to install a new Rebbe?”
Any Chassidus can designate its own leadership but the question is who really speaks on behalf of Chabad? While the administrative/educational apparatus at 770 is nominally controlled by R’ Krinsky (Merkos L’Inyonei Chinuch, Machne Israel, etc.) its unclear if they really speak for Chabad on matters of hashkafah and belief systems including z’man moishiach. Certaintly, the Tzfatim and related Moishichist Groups wouldn’t accept Krinsky’s hashgacha on a glass of water.
‘
sזה מה שקרה לי
”
סתכל עליוהוא לא נכנס
“Lubavitch are making a ridicule of their movement.
Nu? So you move! Vizhnitz did it. 45 did it. Ger did it several times. If there are enough people who feel like you do that the center of your chassidus no longer represents your chassidus, then leave and start anew somewhere else! I hear Monticello is beautiful these days.
To the Group
I’m waiting for the apologists. Tzfatim don’t represent Chabad. And Cunin and Manis Friedman don’t represent Chabad. And the Meshichistim don’t represent Chabad. And the fellow(s) who put up Messiah is Here signs doesn’t represent Chabad. President Truman famously said, “The buck stops here.” Who, if anyone, does represent Chabad?”
To the Group
I’m waiting for the apologists. Tzfatim don’t represent Chabad. And Cunin and Manis Friedman don’t represent Chabad. And the Meshichistim don’t represent Chabad. And the fellow(s) who put up Messiah is Here signs doesn’t represent Chabad. President Truman famously said, “The buck stops here.” Who, if anyone, does represent Chabad?”
qwerty is right in this point
when you learn the utterances and writings of their leader properly ,
all of those erliche habad groups do represent real habad ideology
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.Who, if anyone, does represent Chabad?”
No one “represents” Chabad. It has morphed from a traditional monolithic chassidus whose Rebbe exercised unchallenged leadership to a fragmented set of subgroups with a shared preference for Black Fedoras, a foundational focus on Tanya, kiruv and kabbalah but passionately different views on the Geulah and Z’man Moishiach. When you get away from Eastern Parkway and Detroit, the differences fade substantially.
Are there any Rabonim or Bais Din that the Tzfatim respect?
If not, what good would a firm psak do?
Maybe Rubio can revoke their visas since they seem to be from Israel.DJT is a giant Lubavitcher Chusid, he went to the grave of their Rebbuh. Maybe he can whip them into shape?
To Lemayseh
President Trump isn’t a Chussid. He is, as Square Root said, one of Chabad’s useful idiots. The point is that Chabad doesn’t listen to anyone. They are completely in the clutches of the Yetzer hora who sold them a bill of goods that the Rebbe runs the world.
To the Group
Clearly Chabad doesn’t care about anything that real Jews say. What’s interesting is that if we look at the comments coming from CH in the aftermath of this incident, the Lubavichers are aware that there’s a problem, but they won’t do anything about it. Ultimately, Hashem will take matters in His own hand(s.)
The Rebbetzin must return to lead Chabad. Or else a close relative from Beis Harav.
which Rebetsin ?
.we have established rules of yerusha – going up level to tati, then zeide, etc. Hope the yerush is not a minsagid or a satmar.
770: A Mikdash or a Madhouse?
As an outsider, I think many of us view 770 as both a Mikdash & a Madhouse. There are different subgroups in Chabad, some are sincere Ovdei Hashem in the traditional way while some are delusionally mad. 770 is the home to all of these groups. I don’t judge one group by the actions of another, even though they share the same address.Serious question from a litvak- what is the nekudas hamachlokes in 770? Most fistfights (in chassidic courts and litvish yeshivos) are about “mi barosh”- who should be the next rosh yeshiva or Rebbe. What is this one about?
770: A Mikdash or a Madhouse?
As an outsider, I think many of us view every habadi as both a Mikdash & a Madhouse.
There are different subgroups within every Chabadi , part of every habadi is a sincere Oveid Hashem in the traditional way while the other part is delusional, courtesy of their leader .
I don’t judge any habadi at all , as they all , including their leader , could be more beloved in shamayim than me.
We should not judge any yehudi because we do not have the keilim to judge anyone, but
we definitely should speak up whenever we encounter a falsification of our holy torah.
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.Chabad mashpia Rabbi Yosef Paltiel, a popular “Stump the Rabbi” segment speaker, has said that Chabad chassidim primarily serve the Rebbe, and through serving the Rebbe they also serve Hashem. So based on that, it does make sense for Chabad people to sing Yechi adoneinu by pesicha in order to praise the Rebbe, even though for us litvaks that is when we praise Hashem. I guess this is just a question of propriety not actual belief.
yankel > As an outsider, I think many of us view every habadi as both a Mikdash & a Madhouse.
this is not new. R Soloveitchik writes in 1950s that he respects Alter Rebbe’s teaching, finds published chabad magazines illiterate, and then is at awe at their reaching out to small pockets of assimilated Jews.
These incidents do lend credence to what Rav Shach zt”l said of course.
@lerntmin
“Chabad mashpia Rabbi Yosef Paltiel, a popular “Stump the Rabbi” segment speaker, has said that Chabad chassidim primarily serve the Rebbe, and through serving the Rebbe they also serve Hashem.”
—you hit the nail on its head here .
this is one the main issues of habad’s divergence from torah true judaism
and one of the main sakanot of the future development of errant habad theology
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.who knows where this is going to lead to , when new habad generations are going to arrive on the scene
never to have known those who still remember the flesh and blood version of their wrongly deified leader ….
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.To the group
I’d like to compliment every poster, because your comments are all spot on, but let me take this in a different direction. For many years I was part of the Rabbi Miller world. Eventually I was turned off by some of his comments. That wasn’t the problem. The problem was that I wasn’t allowed to express my point of view. The Rosh Yeshiva, who I loved, would say things like, “When you’ve gone through Shas 10 times and Mesillas Yesharim 50 times like Rabbi Miller, then you can argue with him.” This didn’t sit well with me because I’m a Lower East Sider and the Feinsteins never stifled anyone from expressing his opinion. The point is that Lubavichers face the same problem. I’m sure that many recognize the issues that we’ve brought to the fore, but they feel that they can’t say or do anything or they’ll face ostracism. I’d like to offer an olive branch(Parshas Noach) and welcome Lubavichers to express their concerns. No one will attack them. It’s totally anonymous. The reality is that Chabad does a tremendous amount of good and the Rebbe was a visionary with his far flung Chabad houses, but there are serious concerns with their belief system. For Manis Friedman to state that no Jew can be punished today because of the long bitter exile is but one glaring example as to how far they’ve strayed from our Mesorah.
The point is that Lubavichers face the same problem. I’m sure that many recognize the issues that we’ve brought to the fore, but they feel that they can’t say or do anything or they’ll face ostracism.
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that’s an overly rosy view in my opinion …
the lubavichers are hamstrung ,but not because of the fear of ostracism
it is because they cannot accept , under any circumstance , that their rebbi should be mistaken , anytime , on any topic whatsoever
and it is that irrational belief which is the foundation and the singular source of their continuous conundrum
on all of their so called ‘issues’ which are brought up , they are able to point to utterances or writings of their “infallible” rebbi which are a valid source for their mistaken and problematic belief
even though that their rebbi himself is not able to point to any preceding source to validate his opinion
the very minute that a habadi is willing to accept the possibility that his leader , even while being great man , erred , is the very minute of his salvation
otherwise we will continue to go round and round in the same merry go round without any solution whatsoever
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.To yankel berel
I don’t know if you’re correct or not. I met two women who each left Chabad and married normal Jews. One left because her father told her to get out before he died. He was a BT but when he saw how Chabad deified the Rebbe after his death, he realized that he had chosen the wrong religion. I don’t know why the other woman saw the light, but I had one exchange with her in which I asked her in front of her in-laws if it’s true that Lubavichers are taught that they’re better than all other Jews. They thought I was crazy for suggesting this, but she confirmed it. My son was at a gathering and two OTD Lubavichers showed up. They each described their Yeshiva experience. Every morning their Rebbes asked them how they connected to the Rebbe the day before. Lubavich is Judaism without G-d. It’s hard for me to believe that every Lubavicher believes their religion is flawless. I think they’re psychologically trapped. Chabad developed in the Soviet Union and that’s how they learned to control their minions. Lemayseh, I’m not arguing with you. Yes, every Lubavicher will spout the same garbage, i.e. that the Rebbe is infallible, but I think there are Lubavichers who can be reached. On VIN there’s a decent guy who argues with me. He posits that there’s just a few crazies and all the others fall in line, because they’re afraid to act. That’s wishful thinking on his part. Let’s continue the discussion and continue welcoming Lubavichers to join us. I, for one, don’t bite.
Unfortunately Chabad isn’t the latest chassidus to deify their Rebbe.
maybe I mentioned this once already – habad theology reminds me of climate change and chinese influence
all three advance unseen until they suddenly dominate the world …
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.I am usually skeptical about some of the criticism in this thread, in a sense that criticism might be valid but not the main thing about the movement, but I was recently shocked when a (young) person gave me a dvar Torah saying, looking me in the eyes, it is “from the _current_ L Rebbe”. I was so taken aback that I did not respond as I should have: “thanks for a nice drash from the Rebbe ZT’L”. So, maybe the problem got bigger than I felt.
To Always Ask Questions
Your latest post reminded me of a story. There were two secular Israelis who were hanging out together. One of them had a life-threatening experience and he was saved, and he immediately became a BT. But his friend wasn’t affected. When asked why he wasn’t moved this fellow answered, “My life wasn’t saved.” I’m therefore not surprised that the posts from critics like Yankel Berel, yours truly and others didn’t win you over. You needed a personal event. That’s fine, but you can rest assured that the ‘attacks” directed at Chabad are simply aimed at telling the truth. Some months ago, Seichel 83 spoke about a Psak from CH. He’s right. I saw it. Over 100 Chabad Rabbis “Paskened” that the Rebbe is Moshiach, that he’s a Novi and that he’s still alive. Their religion is a dangerous distortion of Judaism. It’s as simple as that.
To Yankel Berel
I most definitely agree with you that Chabad’s endgame is global domination. Dr. Berger told me privately that the Rebbe often spoke about taking over the world. Let’s not forget their anthem., “From 770 we are marching out on to victory there is no doubt. One by one nations we are conquering.” This is certainly the goal of Chabad’s elite, but I’m trying to reach out to the masses, many of whom are confused. Didn’t Lostspark drop out after being one of their most vehement propagandists. As Hashem prepares the world for the true Redeemer, the Chabad lies will become more apparent. We must continue to speak the truth so that people like Always, who are on the fence, will come over to our side, while some, if even only a handful, of Lubavichers will realize, like the Bnei Korach, that they have to divest themselves from their leaders’ false ideology.
When will the Moetzes Gedolei Torah publicly condemn Chabad / Lubavich for their false-mashiach nonsense?
@aaq
you are right
the problem is getting bigger and bigger as the years go by
the only way this can be handled is by voicing our concerns every time it comes up .
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.JUST SHUT UP ALL OF YOU,EVERY ONE WRITS HERE SOON WILL SUFFER FROM AN ILLNESS REALY BAD TILL HIS DEATH UNTILL REALIZE WHAT CAN DO LOSHON HARA
JUST SHUT UP ALL OF YOU,EVERY ONE WRITS HERE SOON WILL SUFFER FROM AN ILLNESS REALY BAD TILL HIS DEATH UNTILL REALIZE WHAT CAN DO LOSHON HARA
it seems like there are two different qwerty’s on this thread ??
.qwerty> Their religion is a dangerous distortion of Judaism.
I am still not 100% sure that things changed. As I quoted, R Soloveitchik saw the same multi-facted picture: solid original learning (he referred to Alter Rebbe and not anyone after, maybe he would have included the Last Rebbe also?) v. ignorant adherents v. great dedication to helping other Yidden.
Yes, some of the distortions seem to be greater now – but maybe part of that is due to impact of all those Jews who were returned.
And, again, if you look at groups that separate themselves from klka Yisrael and only consider what is important to protects their kehilos and heders – is this better or worse than a distorted view of one’s late rebbe? If it seems better, maybe it is only because we got used to that. But if you look objectively, maybe not.
To yankel berel
I know about the “other” Qwerty. Suffice it to say, it isn’t me. Let’s leave it there.
To square root
Dr. Berger made the same point in his book. The Gedolim do not want to get involved. That’s why we have to come to the plate. It’s not our place to challenge the Gedolim. We just have to do whatever we can do.
To Always Ask Questions
Manis Friedman, probably Chabad’s most influential Rabbi declared that no Jew can be punished on matter what he does, because of the long, bitter exile. Translation, G-d no longer exists. This is the normative Chabad belief. The Rabbi of the Chabad shul I attend said that there is no Gehinnom any more. You should speak to more Lubavichers. They’ll confirm everything that I and the others in this thread have said. Obviously the Brisker Rov is greater than any of us but he wrote many decades ago. Things have gotten far worse.
Qwerty, if you have to choose between an Yid who has confusing theories about Hashem and an Yid who does not care about other Jews – who would you select? I know it is easier to condemn the former, but I think Hashem is on record that he would prefer him over the latter. I do mean here sincere people, not those who use their religious affiliation to excuse their sleeping & drinking habits.
@aaq
we should not be ‘choosing’ at all …
all yehudim are precious
after all , doesnt it say ‘ma chazi dama didach sumak tfei” ?
and even the so called ‘insincere’ people are also included in the above
on the other hand , this does not make aberrations, part of judaism , either
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.we should not be
To Always
I’ll rephrase your basic point, “If you have to choose between a Jew who has confusing theories about Hashem and one who doesn’t care about other Jews whom would you choose?” You then say that Hashem would choose the latter. So let’s understand your implication. Yes Chabad has some questionable ideas about Yiddishkeit, but at least they care about other Jews and this is most important to Hashem. Could you please support your thesis? I, for one, care more about every Jew than any Lubavicher, because I’m not only interested in their Olam Hazeh but also their Olam Habo. The fact that you think otherwise means that you’re accepting Chabad’s propaganda.
“Yes Chabad has some questionable ideas about Yiddishkeit, but at least they care about other Jews and this is most important to Hashem. Could you please support your thesis?”
If one studies the sifrei Neviim, one will see the shocking reality that when there was machlokes, Klal Yisroel was defeated in war. However when there wasn’t machlokes even when they were עובדי ע”ז ר”ל they were successful and won their battles!qwerty613 – I, for one, care more about every Jew than any Lubavicher, because I’m not only interested in their Olam Hazeh but also their Olam Habo.
So go open up a “Qwerty House” in Thailand or India, and start helping lost Jews with their Olam Hazeh and Olam Habo. Doing that is so much easier than tirelessly commenting online with mesirus nefesh to save Jewish Neshamos like you do…
Don’t worry, I’m not interested in wasting time debating you, but your comment was just so funny that I had to laugh.
Uncle > one will see the shocking reality that when there was machlokes, Klal Yisroel was defeated in war. However when there wasn’t machlokes even when they were עובדי ע”ז ר”ל they were successful and won their battles!
right. We also have generation of Bavel dealt with more leniency that the one of flood, due to their unity.
Maybe clearest is Yoma 9 – concluding that sinas hinam of BM2 was punished worse than all transgressions of BM1 … even as there was sinas hinam during BM – between leaders. So, for those who think that you can blubber online, humbly saying that we are nothing/gornisht – seemingly behavior of simple folks like us here weighs more than just between leaders.
YYA > So go open up a “Qwerty House” in Thailand or India, and start helping lost Jews with their Olam Hazeh and Olam Habo.
you are right – there are 2 issues here:
1) people who actually do something v. those who criticize them online.
2) olam hazeh v. olam habo. Some people somehow care about their own olam hazeh while professing their concern for the olam habo of others. The proper behavior is starting with opposite. (I can’t recall the source of this idea, please post if you know).Speaking of ambiguous reaction, I am sure I am not the only one like that. I was recently at a levaya of a very elderly chabadnik who spent his whole life organizing something for children and adults, sometimes getting stuck on the road in his very old car; sometimes not knowing how to pay mortgages for the school building … a lot of people of his generation and a little younger came, including those from different chassiduses and those who often make disparaging anti-chabad comments… I checked with a couple of such rabbis whom I respect who did not come and they praised him also. I did not ask several who did not come, of whom I am not so endeared, so I don’t know whether this attitude is unioversal, or just wide-spread.
To Uncle Ben
I laud your attempt to support AAQ, but you failed miserably. Neither he nor I mentioned the word Machlokes, but you made that the centerpiece of your argument. AAQ posited that even though there are Lubavichers who espouse Kefirah, that’s not such a problem because they care for other Jews. Please cite where in Novi we find that Hashem is pleased with an atheist like Manis Friedman, who teaches that Mitzvas are optional and that G-d is no longer able to punish even willful sinners. Checkmate.
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