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the issur of machloket does not translate into
an issur on alternative thought , or
an issur on fact based criticism
otherwise you reduce all thinking human beings into nothing more than consenting robots
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so the question of sin’at hinam is totally unconnected to our discussion
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.@qwerty613 I’m just wondering, do you consider every Lubavitcher a koifer?
I know of an interesting story of a Chabad shliach who passed away during Covid and he couldn’t be brought to Eretz yisrael, so he was buried in his own country.
Now, this shliach was a very special yid, literally all his time he was busy helping other yidden or doing Torah and mitzvos, like a servant listening wholeheartedly to his master.
18 months later he was finally allowed to be buried in Eretz yisrael, (he was buried with a t’nai to be taken later to Eretz yisrael) when his grave was opened they found his body fully intact like the day he was buried without any decay and with no stench at all.
Is he also a koifer, or did Hashem make a miracle just to test all of us to see if we stand strong against this nisoyan?
If you want more details about this man, I can say more.P.s. I know this story is not debate worthy where an intellectual debate is being held, but I’m just arguing with qwerty- qwerty style….
741,
Did you see the body yourself or are you getting this story from COL?
To 741
The answer to your question is, no I don’t think that every Lubavicher is a Kofer. Now I’ll ask you a question, “Do you agree with Rabbi Feldman that Manis Friedman is a Kofer?
To coffee addict
Are you suggesting that a Lubavicher would lie? Lol.
this story – even if true – is totally irrelevant to this discussion
thats pashut even to a ten year old
.@coffee addict,
I didn’t get this story from col and they don’t even mention the fact that he was intact, they just had a story about a few yidden from Morocco who were finally allowed to be taken for burial in Eretz yisrael.
Although the article does have some pictures of his second levaya and you are able to see the Tallis and you can see the shape of a complete body.
The actual story was told by the chevra kadisha who dug him up, and I heard it from this shliachs relative.@coffe addict are you skeptical about miracle stories in general or only when it doesn’t suit you?
@yankel berel, if you read my first message you would see that I clearly said that it’s not a valid argument only in regards to qwerty style proofs and arguments.
(Also wondering about your spelling style, why sometimes you seem to refuse to use the Jewish usage of “ch” sound, but other times you do use it.)
@qwerty613 it’s humorous of you to imply that I’m lying considering that every new post of yours, you seem to have a new story that personally happened to you that always fits perfectly to the point you trying to make…repeat :
this story – even if true – is totally irrelevant to this discussion
thats pashut even to a ten year old
.To yankel berel
He knows that the story is irrelevant. It’s classic Chabad. Ignore the subject and focus on nonsense. We understand his point. If this Shliach’s body didn’t decompose that’s proof that he was a Tzaddik. Okay, so what does that have to do with the fact that their religion, in our time, promotes Kefirah?
@yankel Berel
I REPEAT as well the second time:
This story isn’t a proof or argument for a logical person like you, but it is to someone like @qwerty613.
The simple proof for that is:
Qwerty, without any evidence, seemed to imply that I was lying about this story. now, why would he need to imply that if to him this story has no relevance to the above discussion.Again, we are not dealing with a regular 10 year old which you mentioned…
To the group
Since 741 refuses to answer my question, I’ll answer it for him. But first let’s address his moronic proof. I happen to know the case of a Rebbe, I think he was the Chernobler, but I’m not sure, who was killed by the Nazis along with his shtetl during the war. After the war that mass grave was opened by the order of the Soviet government because they wanted to film it as proof of German atrocities. They found the Tzaddik’s body alive and intact with the hair behind his ears still wet because he had just come from the Mikveh. I know the story because it was told to me by the grandson of someone who was there and witnessed the event. Therefore, it is certainly possible that this Chabad shliach’s body did not decompose. Now let’s deal with my question, “Do you agree with Rabbi Feldman that Manis Friedman is a Kofer? Since you won’t answer the question, it’s Shtikah Kihodaah. Moreover, any Lubavicher who agrees, even in part with that statement is a Kofer. Finally, any Lubavicher who agree with Cunin that the Rebbe runs the world is an idolater.
So, there is a tzadik and then there are people violating halocha and other norms. I hope nobody thinks that if X is a Tzadik and Y claims to belong to the same group as X, then he is also a tzadik.
bottom line – habad are wonderful people
but hopelessly sidestep every issue they encounter …
.741,
In general, however i find Lubavitch puts out a lot more “tzaddikim stories” than normal
It is something that im trying to work on (not being skeptical)
To qwerty and yankel, I thought 741 was bringing in the story to show that he can’t be a kofer if his body didnt decompose
To the group
I must apologize for an error in yesterday’s post. I meant to write that when the mass grave was opened the Rebbe’s body was intact, but obviously he wasn’t alive. My fault for not reading what I wrote before submitting it.
To Coffee Addict
Let me clear up the confusion. On October 30th, 741 wrote to me, “I’m just wondering, do you consider every Lubavicher a Kofer? Rather than wait for me to answer, he shared the story, in the same post, about the Shliach whose body didn’t decompose. In other words, he took it upon himself to decide that I consider every Lubavicher a Kofer and this was his proof that I’m wrong. The problem is that I never said, nor do I think, that every Lubavicher is a Kofer and so his entire post is completely ridiculous. But then what would you expect from a Kofer. I can call him a Kofer because he refuses to answer my question, to wit, “Do you agree that Manis Friedman is a Kofer?” Obviously he’s dodging my question because he agrees with Manis and he probably also agrees with Cunin that Schneersohn runs the world.
@ CA
“It is something that i”m trying to work on (not being skeptical)”
Considering the unfortunate, widespread, inclination for fantasy (See Emuna u” Bitachon, Chazon Ish) your skepticism may not be such a bad thing. והפתי יאמין לכל דבר. This is especially important when dealing with fantastical claims for which there is no evidence.
Reposted from “Jothar”:
Wikipedia has a great summary of all the shitos on Lubavitch, ayein sham. You are sure to find one by a gadol you like.
The purpose of this thread is like any other here in the CR- allow people to spew their thoughts and feel like they accomplished something, thereby creating sticky content, causing people to click on ad links, thereby generating income for the website owner. The more controversial, the stickier the content. And thus the sausage is made. Sorry for breaking the 4th wall again.
Basically this sums it all up.
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