A different perspective on trump
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- This topic has 54 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by Avi K.
March 17, 2016 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #617434
I posted the following on the news page here in response to an astute political comment about what will be necessary for trump to do to be successful. I thought it might be interesting to the CR:
The old political system may now be dead. Hashem has recreated something old and powerful and dangerous in this world.
All this potential tyrant has to do is wake up the sleeping but angry and frightened passions of the american people. He will then be able to do whatever he wants. Even radically change (dismantle) the constitution, and the scope of presidential power.
Something totally new in america, but very old in the world, may be about to happen.
by feivel on 2016-03-17 at 12:00 pmMarch 17, 2016 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #1143299
I don’t know if anything like that is happening.
I also don’t know that it isn’t, which is why I can’t vote for him.
Can you please link to that article?March 17, 2016 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #1143300
I could have made that comment in regard to ANY article about trump, but here:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/397697/trump-as-gop-presidential-nominee-could-lean-on-party-money.htmlMarch 17, 2016 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #1143301
I don’t know if it’s happening either, just that it could.
Does seem to me to be taxiing towards that runway.March 17, 2016 8:14 pm at 8:14 pm #1143302
These unusual current happenings may be a reminder to the Olam Maaminim that the apparently secure equilibrium of “history” has over and over been punctuated by impossible revolutions. Even in the most stable and immune places, like america.March 17, 2016 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #1143303gavra_at_workParticipant
I really like that term. 🙂 The point as well, that we are in Galus.March 17, 2016 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #1143304March 17, 2016 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #1143305
I don’t know. I suppose. I’m not interested.March 18, 2016 2:10 am at 2:10 am #1143306
Et tu? Seriously, when you apply the label of dictator to Trump, or from the melodramtic folks the comparisons to Hitler or Mussolini, it simply makes no sense. You guys are confusing Trump for some kind of political genius.March 18, 2016 2:16 am at 2:16 am #1143307
Do you need to be a political genius to be able to take too much power? Or can you be a narcissistic egomaniac who knows how to rile up a crowd? Because that much we know about him.March 18, 2016 2:45 am at 2:45 am #1143308
I don’t think akuperma was referring to Trump as “old and powerful”March 18, 2016 3:49 am at 3:49 am #1143309catch yourselfParticipant
Squeak, Trump apparently IS a political genius.
This, from Dictionary.com, is one of the definitions of politics:
“6. use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control, as in business, university, etc.”
By this definition, he may be the greatest political genius in many generations. There is no other explanation for how he managed to maneuver himself in to his current position.
Make no mistake, and do not ‘misunderestimate’ Mr. Trump. He sure is crazy, but he ain’t no fool.March 18, 2016 11:46 am at 11:46 am #1143310
DY – to turn USA into a dictatorship? Yes you do need to be quite the political genius. Our government has checks and balances of power, if you’ll recall from your elementary school gemara classes.
Look, our current president, shem reshaim yirkav, definitely leans towards dictatorship but even he hasnt been totally successful. Look at how he bulldozed congress into approving the medical plan law that no one understood at the time. Look at what he’s saying now to get his nominee appointed, no matter what anyone else thinks. Poll numbers and approval ratings are a laughing matter to him. Yet we are still a democracy.
Could Trump even possibly assume dictatorship, if that is his goal, where Obama has failed? Not a chance – in this country you cannot do much of anything without broad agreement.
If you want to use dictionary dot com definitions of random words to obviate a point that’s fine but it doesnt mean Trump could do anything even remotely dictatorlike in the white house. I don’t underestimate him but neither do I overestimate him.March 18, 2016 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm #1143311akupermaParticipant
Donald Trump is a successful actor who is taking his character from “The apprentice” to new heights. Imagine if Leonard Nimoy (who created the character “Spock” in the Star Trek series) ran for president claiming he was highly logical and had superior intelligence? What happens if Trump goes back to playing himself is anyone’s guess, however his personal life suggests that he is a reasonable businessman, not a nativist (n.b. his two foreign wives and Jewish son-in-law), and not opposed to international trade – and his positions and past actions suggest he is a liberal Republican (cf. Rockefeller, Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford) or a conservative Democrat (though they have been kicked out of the party).March 18, 2016 1:11 pm at 1:11 pm #1143312lakewoodloserMember
Trump is the best. He’s our savior!March 18, 2016 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #1143313
Squeak ,you don’t see the difference in temperament and aggressiveness between Trump and Obama? You’ve got to be kidding.
Lakewoodloser, no trolling, please.March 18, 2016 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #1143314TRUEBTParticipant
NEWS FLASH: HASHEM CONTROLS THE WORLD. All we need to do is figure out how to do tshuva. Read Megillas Esther if you don’t believe me.
Squeak: The Weimar Republic was a democracy with checks and balances. Y’mach Shmo was sworn in as Chancellor Jan. ’33. In Feb. ’33, the Reichstag burned down. By March ’33, he was in total control.March 18, 2016 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #1143315
Ad masai… anyone who has nothing to contribute other than to call Trump a future Hitler is not willing to have a rational discussion and I won’t anymore bother to express disagreement.
Mdd – absolutely a huuuuuge difference in temperment. And style. But is Obama any less aggressive about his agendas? I won’t give you that. So what? This makes them…. two different people.March 18, 2016 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #1143316catch yourselfParticipant
Squeak, I think you may have misunderstood my (and, if I may presume, truebt’s) post.
I am not saying that Trump is another Hitler ym”sh. What I meant [far from obviating the point, although not quite as directly expressed as by truebt] was that a true political genius (which includes Donald Trump, ???? ????) can mold any system to his ends. The restrictions of which you speak are not insurmountable obstacles in the way of a political genius. Evidence – not of Trump’s goals, but of the possibility that he can achieve them, whatever they are – can be seen in Hitler’s Germany.
Of course Hashem runs the show, and that was true when Haman ascended to power as well. Our main concern should be in earning His vote, not in how we use ours. It is for this reason that we should be concerned with the fact that a loose cannon (to say the least) like Trump could be the next President.March 20, 2016 3:57 am at 3:57 am #1143317
Trump doesn’t want to destroy the constitution, Obama does. Why do the frum always vote Democrat?March 20, 2016 5:31 am at 5:31 am #1143318
SJ -“Why do the frum always vote Democrat?”
Look, a lot of Frum guys have become Republicans.
Anyway, how could you call them Frum, because the next DemonCrat president will push Gay marriage for the whole country?!?March 20, 2016 5:44 am at 5:44 am #1143319
See the article Donald Trump: Social-Justice Warrior” in National Review for Trump’s views on free speech. I would imagine that SCOTUS and the Congress would knock them down as courts have knocked down various and sundry laws that violate the Free Speech and Establishment clauses. The question is how he would react. Not to mention the fact that a least one general has implied that the armed forces would mutiny if he gave orders to kill terrorists’ families and the like. This, of course, would lead to a Constitutional crisis not seen since the Civil War.March 20, 2016 7:20 am at 7:20 am #1143320
Avi K -“Not to mention the fact that a least one general has implied that the armed forces would mutiny if he gave orders to kill terrorists’ families and the like.”
You just proved Liberalism is mental disorder. Stop with the conspiracy theories! This country is so liberal, like Israel, we can’t even kill actual Terrorists. Ever hear of Guantanamo detention center?!?March 20, 2016 11:28 am at 11:28 am #1143321
Spider Jerusalem, Trump wants to destroy the Constitution more than Obama does. You have not been paying attention to the American news lately.March 20, 2016 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #1143322
Health, I have long thought that about liberalism. In any case, conspiracy theories are after the fact and by nature are contentions.
The following account appeared in the Washington Post:
[retired United States Air Force four-star general and former Director of the National Security Agency Michael V.]
[Bill] Maher asked.March 20, 2016 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1143323
Health – Obama is clearly no friend of the Jews and it should be clear by now that Hillary isn’t, either.
Avi K – Trump is not trying to silence his opposition like the Nazis did. The protestors and their leftist-liberal social justice warriors are using violence to silence Trump, like the Brownshirts used to.
mdd – Can you cite any actual evidence?
Trump is a better candidate than Hillary if you want to vote for someone who better reflects Torah values. Hillary will just continue Obama’s policies.March 20, 2016 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #1143324
1. You are correct about Hillary. However, I do not trust Trump. Look his flip-flops on Israel.
2. Look at what goes on at his rallies. Not to mention that he has explicitly called for violence. He also said “I’m going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money. … “. That is simply being dishonest as the courts would not allow it but then as POTUS he could appoint like-minded judges.
3. Trump wants a religious test for immigration, which is another flagrant violation of the Constitution.
4. Trump in no way reflects Torah values. He is coarse and profane. He cannot quote the NT correctly, which IMHO is a big minus for an American. Dostoyevsky said that if Gd is dead (as Nietzsche claimed) then all is permitted.March 20, 2016 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #1143325
You didn’t address my main point! Here it is again: “This country is so liberal, like Israel, we can’t even kill actual Terrorists!”March 20, 2016 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #1143326
We can’t kill terrorists? Last I checked, Obama got Bin Laden!March 20, 2016 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #1143327
SJ, he even threatened Paul Ryan that he was going to pay a big price if he does not go along with his policies. He clearly has dictatorial tendencies. His statements are quite clear. If you don’t see it, there is nothing I can say (or, at least, have time to say) to you.March 20, 2016 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #1143328flatbusherParticipant
Trump is simply tapping in with Americans frustration with the political system as it is. People who support him don’t care what he says he does as long as he is different from the status quo, and that is appealing enough that they ignore his flip-flops, lies, etc. He has so far not demonstrated any great familiarity with the Constitution so if he is out to destroy it, it is out of ignorance. The truth is more Republicans do not support him than do, but his fellow aspiring nominees are fracturing that opposition. I heard Kasich this morning and he still thinks he can win even though his polling is low. It would be sad if Trump won for that reason, and worse if Clinton won because of Trumo.March 20, 2016 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1143329
Matan1 -“We can’t kill terrorists? Last I checked, Obama got Bin Laden!”
WoW! Soon you’ll tell me – we got the two in San Bernardino!
Ever hear of Guantanamo detention center?!? Tell me – why did they lock them up? I know – because we’re a bunch of American tyrants!!!March 20, 2016 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #1143330
mdd – He didn’t threaten Paul Ryan, this is motzi shem ra. Trump’s opponents make up lies. Where did he threaten Paul Ryan?
Ari K – My point about Torah values is that the Democrats hold none of them, and “look what goes on at his rallies”, this is just sodomy. These protestors are becoming violent because they know they’ll never be held accountable by the media. They’re like Palestinians, never responsible for their behavior.March 20, 2016 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #1143331👑RebYidd23Participant
Donald Trump is an evil Democrat with all the negatives of the Republican party thrown in.March 20, 2016 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #1143332
Health, we did get the two in San Bernardino!
I don’t understand your point. What does Guantanamo have to with this, and why does that make us tyrants?March 21, 2016 2:55 am at 2:55 am #1143333
SJ, Trump said and did enough in front of cameras to show his true colors. Please…March 21, 2016 4:02 am at 4:02 am #1143334Sam2Participant
SJ: That’s just not true. Trump is endorsing violence to silence his opposition, and there are hundreds of anecdotal cases of racist/xenophobic/antisemitic comments from Trump supporters to his detractors. This is what he inspires. And it should scare us.March 21, 2016 5:55 am at 5:55 am #1143335
Spider, sodomy? According to the Xtian meaning or the Jewish meaning (middot Sodom)? In any case, I agree that Hillary being elected will be a catastrophe but I fear that Trump being elected will be a disaster. Unless, of course, this is all hype and he will settle down to the serious business of running a country like a businessman.March 21, 2016 6:52 am at 6:52 am #1143336
Matan1 -“I don’t understand your point.”
That’s quite obvious!
“What does Guantanamo have to with this, and why does that make us tyrants?”
Because, why are they locked up, if they aren’t Terrorists?!?
Oh, I know, because we’re tyrants.March 21, 2016 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #1143337flatbusherParticipant
RebYid: are you talking about negatives of the current Republican Party or Republicanism in general? If so, what do you see as negatives of Republicanism?March 21, 2016 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #1143338
“All this potential tyrant has to do is wake up the sleeping but angry and frightened passions of the american people. He will then be able to do whatever he wants. Even radically change (dismantle) the constitution, and the scope of presidential power.
Something totally new in america, but very old in the world, may be about to happen. by feivel on 2016-03-17 at 12:00 pm”
This is utter nonsense. No such thing will even come close to happening even if Trump wins. When nothing ever happens like what you said you should look back at this post prior to posting another silly doomsday theory.March 21, 2016 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #1143339
All Trump cares about in my opinion is himself. He doesn’t have any values besides Trump. He is not racist, anti-semetic or anti anything besides anti those who are anti-trump.March 21, 2016 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #1143340rabbiofberlinParticipant
newbee: You may be correct in your assessment that Trump-real name, Drumpf-will not be able to change the Constitution and the basic fabric of the nation-However, he will be Obama on steroids when it comes to “executive actions”-as Congress will not defer to him- and he will be Nixon-with is enemies list- on super steroids. He is a narcissist, a liar and a danger to the basic fabric of the Republic.March 21, 2016 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #1143341
Yea I agree with that. But saying things like,
“Wake up the sleeping but angry and frightened passions…He will then be able to do whatever he wants. Even radically change (dismantle) the constitution. Something totally new in america, but very old in the world, may be about to happen.”
Is complete nonsense. It shows a lack of understanding of our political and social climate.March 21, 2016 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #1143342
Health, they are locked up because they are terrorists.March 21, 2016 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #1143343
Matan1 -“Health, they are locked up because they are terrorists.”
I Know That! So why did you comment on my post of “You didn’t address my main point! Here it is again: “This country is so liberal, like Israel, we can’t even kill actual Terrorists!””; with we got Obama Bin Laden?!?March 22, 2016 12:01 am at 12:01 am #1143344
Health, locking up terrorists and killing terrorists are not mutually exclusive,March 22, 2016 1:34 am at 1:34 am #1143345TRUEBTParticipant
Squeak – sorry. I did not mean to imply that there would then logically follow Apr. ’33 – National boycott of Jewish businesses and removal of Jews from civil service. Anyone who thinks that is delusional. He isn’t going to lead a boycott against his daughter. I disagree with your “it can’t happen here” attitude. Mr. Trump does seem to want to deport 11 million people from the U.S.A.
How will he accomplish that? It’s not clear. He will need to circumvent the Justice system somehow. He has both broad support and supporters willing to get violent which implies that he might be successful similar to the trade unions success one hundred years ago. Once the mechanism for deporting people en masse is in place, there is no telling what it will be used for. But maybe that will never happen. From his speech at AIPAC, he sounds far more pro-Israel than Hillary.
The whole concept that we can know in advance who will be better is false. Hashem alone knows. As I said before, our job is to do tshuva. Bracha and Hatzlacha.March 22, 2016 5:42 am at 5:42 am #1143346
Matan1 -“Health, locking up terrorists and killing terrorists are not mutually exclusive,”
And where did I say we can’t kill ANY Terrorists? Time to brush up on your reading skills!March 22, 2016 5:52 am at 5:52 am #1143347
Health: “This country is so liberal, like Israel, we can’t even kill actual Terrorists.”
Maybe you should brush up on yours.
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