September 16, 2010 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #592372insuranceguyMember
Can someone please tell me how one fulfills the mitzvah of succah by eating in a succah one set up on a fire escape. What is wrong with people? This is a sakana, I wish rabbonim would tell people not to do this.September 16, 2010 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #696256
Crossing the street is a sakana, I asked rabbonim to tell people not to do it, but nu- they have to get to the other side of the street.September 16, 2010 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #696257rebdonielMember
There is a difference. A fire escape is there specifically for the purpose to save lives in the event of a fire, c”v, so that you have an escape should an apartment or house go on fire. Pikuach nefesh comes first and foremost.September 16, 2010 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #696258
Fire- milsa d’lo schiacha
Cars on street- schiach
Kal v’chomer the succah can be there.September 17, 2010 12:37 am at 12:37 am #696259tomim tihyeMember
Thank you for the heter Rabbi Squeak. Now I can join my family on Shabbos.September 17, 2010 4:03 am at 4:03 am #696260charliehallParticipant
I often work at FDNY HQ. I often see frum Jews in line because they have been cited for fire code violations. We of all people who were granted the principle of pikuach nefesh should be the last people to get fire code violations. Please, PLEASE do not put a sukkah on a fire escape. You will regret it if disaster strikes.September 17, 2010 7:06 am at 7:06 am #696261WIYMember
Oiberchuchems dont listen to reason.September 17, 2010 10:56 am at 10:56 am #696262emoticon613Member
i never really understood fire escapes anyway. the thing doesn’t even go all the way to the ground so it doesn’t help anything – you’re still stuck two stories up attached to a burning building?? doesn’t make sense to me. explanation…?September 17, 2010 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #696263FunnyBunnyMember
@emoticon613: its close enough to the ground to jump, or the firefighters put their ladders up against the hanging ladder and you climb down the rest.September 17, 2010 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #696264
I’m not being mattir or saying it is adivsable. Merely pointing out that if you are complaining purely because of “sakana” you don’t have an argument. Driving a car and crossing the street are things we do that have an equal or greater level of sakana.September 17, 2010 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #696265Dr. PepperParticipant
emoticon613- If it’s a vertical ladder then it’s held in place by a bar and can be released by lifting the ladder up a little and lowering it down.
There are horizontal ones that have a counterweight so when you start walking down it will slowly shift towards the ground. Hold on tight.
The obvious reason for this is to keep people at street level from climbing up.
I hope this answers your question.September 17, 2010 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #696266YW Moderator-80Member
im not sure but i think you are misunderstanding the concern of sakana here
im getting the impression that you believe the poster is saying it is a sakana to live in a Sukkah in such a precarious location.
but i believe the poster is saying the sakana is to everyone, in the event that the fire escape needs to be used in the event of a fire.
or maybe you are not misunderstanding the posterSeptember 17, 2010 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #696267
Let me be clear.
Driving a car is also a sakana to ‘everyone’ (by everyone you mean ‘many people’). In the event of a brake failure, or a loss of attention, or mistimed maneuver- many people could wind up hurt as a result of your decision to drive the car.
Blocking a fire escape presents a similar sakana. To block a fire escape for no reason would be senseless. To put a succa there is not senseless- if you want to have a succa and you live in an apartment, it is easy to see the sense in putting it there (since all other space accessible to you is indoors).
I am not saying that this means it is OK to do- au contraire. As it is a violation of code, it is just as wrong as double-parking your car or parking in front of a fire hydrant. Just that the folks crawling out of the woodworks to cry ‘sakana’ as of the same ilk as the ones who want to stop kapparos because ‘tzar baalei chayim’.September 17, 2010 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #696268studentParticipant
The fireplace does not belong to you-it belongs to the building, and you have no right to put a sukkah there, especially if it endangers other people in the event of a fire. Dina Malchusa dina – the laws of the land (in this case the fire department) must be followed, even if it means you might have to walk a few blocks to use your shul’s sukkah instead. And BTW although I vehemntly disagree with your viewpoint of a sukkah on a fireplace, I don’t see what that hasanything to do with oppostion to kapparos.September 17, 2010 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #696269YW Moderator-80Member
squeak agrees one should not put a Sukkah on a fire escape, and one does not have a right to do so.
he only states that the reason of sakanah is not alone enough, as the sakanah is no greater than a myriad of other activities we do on a daily basis, even though there is an equivalent or even greater degree of sahanahSeptember 17, 2010 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #696270tomim tihyeMember
Squeak- LOL- Do I even have a fire escape?September 19, 2010 6:37 am at 6:37 am #696271truthsharerMember
If a fire place is public property then you couldn’t put a sukkah there without permission anyway.
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