December 17, 2021 9:37 am at 9:37 am #2042675
If we don’t unite from joy, we will unite through sadness.December 17, 2021 10:45 am at 10:45 am #2042694
I find the biggest examples in achdus is through sadness (except for הר סיני)
The three Israeli youths that got kidnapped
Personally I think the סיום השס was from joy yet the last two things I brought up happened after thatDecember 17, 2021 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #2042750
Achdus with whom? Conservative? Reform? Open Orthodox?December 17, 2021 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #2042759
coffee > Personally I think the סיום השס was from joy yet
yes, this is bothersome. Corona was already out at that time, we just were not aware …
The event was inspiring indeed for many people, including kids. The hesaron I noticed then (not to fully diminish inspiration) was that the speaker row was Agudah-inspired. I read somewhere that YU had their own little event and then went to the large one despite being excluded from the podium. It would be more meaningful if the “anu rotzim” include everyone in “anu”.December 17, 2021 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #2042785GadolhadorahParticipant
“Achdus with whom? Conservative? Reform? Open Orthodox..”
Yes, Yes and Yes. Only “no” would be with trolls, whatever their hashkafah.December 17, 2021 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #2042780
You’re right however this was agudah sponsored so it made sense there were agudah rabbis
However not to diminish the chassid dancing together with the young Israel attendee shouldn’t be discreditedDecember 17, 2021 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #2042777yungermanSParticipant
If we want Mashiach to come then we all need to have Achdus together as one loving nation on all levels-from frei to modern orthodox to Frum to Chassidish etc….- and unite together as one loving nation for serious teshuva begging Hashem for forgiveness so we can worthy of the coming of Mashiach
May it Happen very soonDecember 17, 2021 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #2042778
ujm, don’t make it look like you don’t know what I and Rav Hoffman are talking about. Obviously, achdus among the orthodox.December 17, 2021 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #2042798
My answer to ujm is
Loving someone is different than loving what they do
Loving in Hebrew is אהבה which the שורש is הב to give
The best is to give the beauty of frumkeit over but food or money works too unless he is the type of person that’s purposely taking himself out of the klalDecember 17, 2021 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #2042797
Reb Eliezer, is Open Orthodox enough Orthodox? If not, when is it enough?December 17, 2021 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #2042803🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
joe Ive got a great career for you. You should ask streets and sanitation if you can be the guy who paints bright yellow lines on all the streets and medians. Keeping divisions bold and alive seems to be a strength and area of interest for you, use it for good.December 17, 2021 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #2042804
CA: Are you trying to say “Love the sinner, hate the sin”??December 18, 2021 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #2042897
coffee, the event did not say “Aguda’s event”, the webpage says:
The Siyum unites worldwide Jewry in an unparalleled display of achdus. Jews from all walks of life join in pursuit of a common goal – the completion of Shas, in its entirety. In countries across the globe, the dedicated ranks of Shas Yidden are learning and achieving, as they work toward the upcoming 13th Siyum HaShas. The singular allegiance to Torah will once again be apparent, when we gather to celebrate the momentous culmination once again, on January 1, 2020December 18, 2021 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #2042916
It had agudah’s logo shown everywhere, you had to be blind not to see itDecember 18, 2021 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #2042914
If open orthodox violate our mesorah, how are they orthodox to unite with them?December 18, 2021 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #2042908
AAQ: Jewry presumably includes OO (which was founded by a YU rabbi and it identifies itself as part of MO), Lev Tahor, Shuvu Bonim, Brisk, Peleg Yerushalmi, Neteurei Karta, Satmar, Lubavitch, Ponoveze and even Conservative Judaism.
Are you similarly upset those Yidden were not included in the achdus of the event you’re discussing?
Reb Eliezer: Open Orthodox claim they’re Orthodox and uphold the mesorah. Other groups also claim to be Orthodox and follow a mesorah. Who should judge which Orthodox-claiming groups are really Orthodox and correctly observing the mesorah versus which are Orthodox claiming but really anything but, and thus excluded from your call for achdus?December 18, 2021 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm #2042933
coffee > It had agudah’s logo shown everywhere,
That is why I am saying that two messages did not match – “unites worldwide Jewry in an unparalleled display of achdus” and a logo (or, more importantly, speakers). This detracts from the awesome event, unfortunately. I hope this was on organizers, and not the opinion of people who were learning the daf for 7.5 years though.
ujm, I have no problem with your list, other than OO , non-O and various criminals. I appreciate that expanding a circle leads to boundary problems … This is not an excuse to exclude obviously eligible.December 18, 2021 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #2042940
AAQ: Why are you excluding OO, while including all the other groups? Where is your line being drawn — why is OO excluded? If you exclude OO, how can you object to others excluding other Orthodox claiming groups?December 19, 2021 6:59 am at 6:59 am #2042962
ujm, ok, include those also. I am thinking someone who was learning Gemorah daily for 7 years learned something. Let him/her in the stadium (after an exam to verify).December 19, 2021 9:13 am at 9:13 am #2043017
AAQ: So if I’m keeping good count, you’ve got OO, Lev Tahor, Shuvu Bonim, Brisk, Peleg Yerushalmi, Neteurei Karta, Satmar, Lubavitch and Ponoveze included in the achdus but Conservative affiliated people are out.December 19, 2021 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #2043282Rav TuvParticipant
What about Orthodox predators who claim to keep the Mesorah? It is unfortunately a growing group.December 19, 2021 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #2043288
The line is drawn by the level of adherence to Halacha of the communities Rabbi. If the Rabbi does not keep Halacha properly the people stand no chance. If the Rabbi keeps Halacha properly he will hopefully inspire and educate his congregants in yirat shamayim and Halacha lemaase.December 19, 2021 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #2043293
And who judges the level of adherence to Halacha of the community’s Rabbi?December 19, 2021 11:10 pm at 11:10 pm #2043304
Not you or me, that’s for sure.December 19, 2021 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #2043312
“Not you or me, that’s for sure.”
So if the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah decide to make a Torah world event (Siyum, Asifa, rabbinic meeting, protest or whatever else) unifying the various segments, kehilas and communities in Klal Yisroel including Litvish, Chasidish and Sefardic, but there’s no official MO leadership participation or invitation, then we can presumably assume the Tzadikim on the Moetzes made an informed decision resulting in the inclusion that was selected.December 19, 2021 11:43 pm at 11:43 pm #2043315
I remember in camp one of the popular theme songs was “Alef!, Ches!, Daled!, Vov, Suf!, we’ve got Achdus and that’s more than enough!!”December 20, 2021 10:01 am at 10:01 am #2043370
The Kol Bo says that women have their first responsibility to their husbands and family. Therefore they are exempt from minyonim, krias Hatorah and advocating otherwise is no mesorah.December 20, 2021 11:59 am at 11:59 am #2043403DaMosheParticipant
I hate to say it, but even the Siyum haShas was not an example of achdus. Let’s not forget that at the 2012 siyum, there were Chassidic rebbes who told their chassidim not to attend because Zionist Rabbonim were going to be speaking.December 20, 2021 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #2043604
No, you should never presumably assume the opinion of sadikim, especially on such an issue like this one.December 21, 2021 8:55 am at 8:55 am #2043700🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
I understand that achdus means everyone together and different people have different views of who “everyone” is.
I would never be so arogant as to decide who is included in everyone, I am making the observation that for some, it was all jews and any exclusion is offensive while for others it means every jew who accepts Hashems Torah without trying to round the edges and cut the corners to shrink it to fit each generation.
My mother worked in a Jewish social services organization. She wanted us to be raised to love all Jews and would praise all the reform and secualr Jews who would give up hours and days to pack and deliver food for the community. Especially on purim and before Pesach when nobody else helps. My brother made some comment to her about this being their “judaism”. My mom did not like that he disregarded what they do for what they don’t. My mom wanted us to love all Jews, even if we cannot approve of them.
to me, this illustrates the “two sides”, the lines just get grayer when as you move along the spectrum.December 22, 2021 10:27 am at 10:27 am #2043981HaLeiViParticipant
“It is unfortunately a growing group.”
What’s the name of the group?December 23, 2021 11:22 am at 11:22 am #2044210
The Rabbenu Bachaya says that a plague ch’v can occur if we directly count the Jews as all together as a group are tzadikim and counting separates the good from the bad.
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