June 25, 2019 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #1746910
Any school that gets money out of parents using admission cards according to Rav Moshe Feinstein it is stolen moneyJune 25, 2019 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #1746919
Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Jion the hock Bachurm lets hear your opinionJune 25, 2019 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #1746918lowerourtuition11210Participant
Tell me a yeshiva that doesn’t do it.June 25, 2019 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #1746929GoldilocksParticipant
Undercove Bachur, can you explain?
Why would it be considered stealing?June 25, 2019 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1746940
How is it “stolen”?June 26, 2019 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #1747649adocsParticipant
So tuition is now stolen money?June 26, 2019 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #1747456
That’s the problem
I am pretty sure Yeshiva of Brooklyn dose not do itJune 27, 2019 8:05 am at 8:05 am #1747911
My understanding is that an admission card is given to parents when their past accounts are settled.
Can you please tell us ( a ) if I am wrong (and if so, how), or ( b ) why using this process to ensure the yeshiva receives monies it is entitled to results in the money being stolen?
The WolfJune 27, 2019 8:12 am at 8:12 am #1747919
As someone whose children have been out of yeshiva for decades and handled tuition by just write check….
Please explain what an admission card is, and why it might be stealing?
ThanksJune 27, 2019 11:19 am at 11:19 am #1748117
It is humiliating to the children whose parents are poor, which makes it unjustified. Extortion can be viewed, loosely, as a type of stealing.June 27, 2019 11:26 am at 11:26 am #17481775ishParticipant
An admission card is issued when all past tuition debts owed are paid. A student will not be admitted to class at the beginning of the year without this card. I imagine the problem is that according to Halacha, you are not allowed to refuse admission to cheder when parents are unable to pay. The community is supposed to force the rich people to pay for the education of the poor people. (Ramah in Choshain Mishpat (163:3)) With the tuition card system, a poor person who may not be obligated to pay according to Halacha, is forced to pay, which is akin to stealing the money from them. I imagine.June 27, 2019 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #1748768
Thank you for the explanation.
This system was not used in any of the institutions our children or grandchildren attended/attend.
#1 it is none of the classroom teacher’s business to know which children have parents who owed money
#2 at the end of the school year, the scholarship committee and the administrator would have a meeting and go over the amounts still owing (without names revealed). If there was enough funds in the scholarship savings account, money would be transferred to the operating budget to clear all balances.
#3 The HEAVY HITTERS would be asked to cover the debt, so every family started the year fresh after summer break.
It’s different ins small communities OOT. Lots of non-frum Jews support the yeshivas/day schools along with all the other Jewish institutions in town.June 27, 2019 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #1749102lowerourtuition11210Participant
#1 it is none of the classroom teacher’s business to know which children have parents who owed money. A wll known girls yeshiva withholds the report card if parents owe tuition. Teacher tells the student the envelope is empty “ask your parents why?
#2 at the end of the school year, the scholarship committee and the administrator would have a meeting and go over the amounts still owing (without names revealed). If there was enough funds in the scholarship savings account, money would be transferred to the operating budget to clear all balances. (Not in Brooklyn. They know names and amounts.
#3 The HEAVY HITTERS would be asked to cover the debt, so every family started the year fresh after summer break. In Brooklyn, the hanhalah holds back the registration packet until the balance is paid (or a payment plan is agreed upon).June 27, 2019 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #1749135
Yeshiva Of BrooklynJune 27, 2019 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #1749137
Olny money gotten through admission cardsJune 28, 2019 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #1749260
Admission cards are a terrible תקופה that has been plaguing כלל ישראל in the past recent years. So many of you may be wondering what is admission cards? Allow me to explain.
Admission cards are a weapon used by school administrations to force parents who have already paid whatever is financially possible and on top of that are financially struggling.
So this is how they are used: About a week before the exam a member of the school administration (usually the principal) enters the classroom and informs the class that those who have not received an admission card will not be allowed to take the exam. It is quite obvious to many students in the class who will not be able to take the exam and the child is therefore embarrassed ברבים a אסור דאריתא which רשי says is comparable to רוצוך
The day of the exam arrives and the teachers give out the exam upon instruction from the school administration only to give the exam to those students who show the teacher their admission card. the principle then enters the room and calls out the students BY NAME without admission card to come to his office therby6 embarrassing the child ברבים a אסור דאריתא which רשי says is comparable to רוצוך
In the office, the principal instructs the children to call their parents and inform them that they are unable to take the exam until tuition is paid in full, so they should call the office and make a payment immediately.
According to Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l this method is considered stealing. Now you may ask how is it stealing? Now imagine someone walks over to you with a gun and says: give me $100 or I will kill That is considered extortion a type of theft, so too here by using the child as a weapon you are extorting the money from the parents by using their child as a weapon
רבותי stop this terrible תקופה stop harassing the financially unstable parents as the Ramah in Choshain Mishpat (163:3) says the community is supposed to force the rich people to pay for the education of the poor people.
(a boy in a prominent Brooklyn Yeshiva)June 28, 2019 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #1749265
I ask my question again…
My understanding is that an admission card is given to parents when their past accounts are settled.
Can you please tell us ( a ) if I am wrong (and if so, how), or ( b ) why using this process to ensure the yeshiva receives monies it is entitled to results in the money being stolen?
Can you please answer?
The WolfJuly 5, 2019 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #1753144zahavasdadParticipant
I am not defending anything here, but you have a problem , the Yeshivas need the tutiton to pay expenses and the parents cannot pay the money. At some point the system is going to collapse unless other sources of funding are foundJuly 7, 2019 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #1753483
I am dead set against them, But in the USA School vouchers are the answer to the problem.
Low income frum families with many children cannot afford to pay sufficient tuition to run the schools.
Why am I against school vouchers?
#1 I don’t believe in tax dollars funding private institutions
#2 Separation of church and state
#3 Remember the uproar when NYS attempted to set standards and requirements in yeshiva teaching? If yeshivas and day schools take government money (vouchers) regulations and requirements will rear their headsJuly 7, 2019 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #1753499
Without mentioning names of schools
A prominent administrator told me, they only withhold cards from parent who won’t speak to the business office, and just make believe all is OK.
It also is Never done without warning the parent.
So I ask you or undercover bocher ,
Who is doing wrong here?
The school that can’t function without money, and tried in good faith to work something out, and warned the parents,?
Or the self centered stuck up arrogant parent, who ignores the school and then callously sends their own kid !!! To the lions den to be embarrassed, basically telling the school, I dare you to carry out your threat???July 7, 2019 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #1753549
I’m still waiting for an answer to my question. The fact that you are not answering leads me to believe that you don’t have an answer.
The WolfJuly 7, 2019 1:47 pm at 1:47 pm #1753555
Parents should not send their children to the lion’s den, but the school has no right to be a lion’s den.July 7, 2019 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #1753615
If a parent sends a kid to the grocery store after the owner told the parents their credit is too overdrawn and he can’t extend anymore credit, is the grocer wrong for not allowing the child to go home with the groceries?July 7, 2019 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #1753626
If the grocery is anything other than a for profit business, yes.July 7, 2019 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #1753631
KY: The grocery will not make a loud announcement that other customers will become privy to.July 7, 2019 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #1753699
So in other words
Joseph and ry23
You both feel that even though the parent is aware that their child does not have an admission Card and knows the ramifications of sending their child to school without it, and still chooses to send their child, the school is wrong for carrying out their terms that they clearly enunciated to the parents???
So the school should say, well we really didn’t want to allow this child in because their parents are stiffing us and giving us attitude to boot, but hey, once you sent your kid we’ll keep them in school.
I wonder how that will work out for the viability of the school in the long run.
And when the school can’t pay their teachers, will you Joseph be understanding that it’s because they have no way to force recalcitrant parents to pay, (because once word gets out that if you don’t pay they won’t throw your kid out, many more parents will stop paying, because why not)
Or will you pontificate about the school having an obligation to their staff to pay on-time?July 7, 2019 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #1753747
If it’s the wrong thing to do, it doesn’t become okay just because they gave a warning.July 8, 2019 7:07 am at 7:07 am #1753815
However the question is on who is the onus for the wrong thing being done.
I posit it is on the parent for sending their child.
If I tell you don’t come on my private property during the massive block party I’m making,
I just remembered the story of kamtza , and saw, the glaring similarity,
I back off my previous posts and bow out of this discussion, for nowJuly 8, 2019 7:07 am at 7:07 am #1753816
The reason I only rescind my previous posts but do not switch my opinion, is because one can differentiate that there it was just hate /spite whereas here it is with just cause. However I’m not certain which way to goJuly 8, 2019 11:38 am at 11:38 am #1753945user176Participant
Also, the assumption is that the school is willing to work with the family. If they genuinely can not afford the full amount the school should verify that claim and provide a discount. The school should not demand tuition over rent but there most likely will need to be compromise on where the priority of tuition falls on the list of expenses. The school can’t expect a family to live like paupers so they afford tuition but the family can’t make keeping up with the Jones’ their priority at the expense of their tuition.July 8, 2019 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #1753928
The teachers of the school don’t have the option of NOT paying their rent or utility bills. If parents don’t pay their tuition, teachers and lower salaried workers in the school don’t get paid. If parents are having difficulty paying their tuition bills, they should not project their problems on to the school’s employees and the parent of other children who have worked hard to pay their tuition (sometimes holding a second job or foregoing items the non-paying parents may enjoy). If you cannot pay the bill, either find some mosdos or wealthy baal tzadakah who will pay your kids’ tuition, or send them to a public school and tutor them at home in limudei kodesh but you have no right to impose your economic problems on innocent third-parties. At the same time, as others have noted, the schools should be firm but seek every possible means to avoid embarrassing the innocent children who get caught up in these disputes.July 8, 2019 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #1753942user176Participant
Haven’t read all the comments. I’m sure every school has their own policies regarding the admission cards. In my kids school the policy is if your tuition isn’t worked out, meaning the tuition amount and payment plan is agreed upon by the parents and school, you get a card. There are always the parents who will try to avoid paying tuition, or even bothering to discuss it with the administration. Instead of saying whoever hasn’t worked it out can’t come in, it’s much better to say if you haven’t received your card in the mail be sure to contact the school and work it out because your child won’t be admitted without it.July 8, 2019 12:03 pm at 12:03 pm #1753943yitzykParticipant
It is possible that Undercove is referring to a specific situation in a specific Yeshiva that may in fact be doing something incorrect. But his generalization “Any Yehiva…” is then mis-applied.
Even his subsequent explanation was rather incredulous. I can’t imagine any Yeshiva that admits people without making any financial arrangements at the beginning of the year. So if the parent are in financial hardship and have in fact ‘paid all they can’, how does that compare with whatever arrangement they agreed to with the Yeshiva? Did they lie to the Yeshiva and agree to pay an amount that they had no intention of honoring?
Or perhaps they encountered a financial hardship later in the year, and now cannot pay what they agreed to? In that case, they should contact the Yeshiva and renegotiate the terms.
Although there are surely many exceptions, all of the Yeshivas, Schools, and Camps that I have dealt with in my 25 years as a parent of seven children have been run by decent humans who may have a tough policy but ultimately will negotiate if there is a legitimate need.
The only Admission Cards I have ever heard of were included or referred to in the initial Admission process for the first day of the school year. Some schools don’t have the ‘Admission Card’ policy at all. Some reference it but never ask for them on the first day. And most important of all – some schools have them, BUT if you call them and make proper arrangements, whether your balance is paid up or not, they will agree to send them to you. They have no interest in actually following up their threat. All they want if you to make arrangements or discuss your balance.July 8, 2019 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #1753950yitzykParticipant
CTLAWYER – Yes, I agree with you that government money can spell big problems in the future. If you have a better solution, please implement it.
I love the fact that you never had a problem with tuition – you just wrote a check. But surely you understand that not everyone is in the same boat as you. You would be one of those HEAVY HITTERS that should (and maybe do and did) help subsidize the tuition for the less fortunate.
However, in Brooklyn (for example) when a school may contain an overwhelming majority of students from large families with low income, there just aren’t enough wealthy parents to rely on. The schools almost purposely make it so by admitting only students whose parents are ‘In Chinuch or Kollel” and turning away any parents that actually work for a living. Then they teach those students that Kollel is the only acceptable lifestyle.
BTW – I just had a very difficult time negotiating with a prominent yeshiva for next year. They refused to reduce their seemingly very high tuition demand (except for a meager discount) even though I presented a proper need. They alleged that they already reduced it to their bare minimum to meet their expenses. The only option they offered me is that any funds that I can get anyone else to donate to the yeshiva would be offset against my tuition. I am very worried about this for the coming year, as it seems that I have entered into an agreement for an amount of tuition that I don’t know how I will pay.
So would you like to make a generous (or even modest) donation to a very respectable well-know prominent yeshiva? You would be getting a Tax Deduction and helping another Jewish family send two ehrliche Bochurim to Yeshiva.
I don’t expect any actual response, but if anyone actually wants to take me up on the offer, I could provide the name of the Yeshiva here.July 8, 2019 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #1754051
If the parent doesn’t have money to pay off the balance in the beginning of the year and is refused an admission card, the child will either be embarrassed when the school embarrasses him on the first day for not having a card or alternatively by him not having a school to go to.July 8, 2019 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #1754123
What is the approximate amount of tuition these days in Brooklyn and Lakewood?July 14, 2019 7:00 am at 7:00 am #1757689RedlegParticipant
Relying on “heavy hitters” to make up the shortfall runs into the main difficulty inherent in all redistribution schemes. To quote Margaret Thatcher, “Sooner or later you run out of Other People’s Money”.
IMO, the main problem is that each school is a separate fiefdom to itself and is often run as a business that relies on tuition and donations to pay its expenses and provide livelihoods for their owners. There is no central Board of Ed that runs all the local schools a public enterprise. An example of this organization is, l’havdil, the Catholic school system where all the schools in the Diocese are run by Diocesan board and supported by general funds.
What needs to happen is:
1. Consolidation: Instead of 5 schools with 150 enrollment, why not one school with 600 enrollment? Yeah, I know that there may be differences in hashkofah but so what! Torah is the same for everyone and as are secular studies.
2. Centralization: All schools the area should be under one administration. Which receives funds and distributes them. (N.B. This already works in homogeneous communities like KJ and New Square. The problem is to get folks to disregard a little of their personal hashkofos for the greater good.)
3. Funding: While, as CTL so cogently points out, government money comes with a lot of baggage, there is no reason that schools should not accept Jewish money. That means that the schools need to just bite the bullet and join Federation.July 14, 2019 8:29 am at 8:29 am #1757770
1. School consolidation of unaffiliated yeshivos will simply not happen for a bunch of large reasons. It’s a pipe dream. At best you can hope for administrative/back office pooling/consolidation.
2. The Federation will simply not accept and not fund the hundreds of mainstream Litvish and Chasidish yeshivos in Lakewood, Brooklyn and Monsey.July 30, 2019 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #1767400MistykinsParticipant
I have said the same as Redleg. Find a way to rent a larger building, and put one school in each wing or each floor. They could split rent and utilities.
When parents don’t pay, they shouldn’t embarrass the kids. Let all children to take the test, and hand out all envelopes at the end, with either an admission card or a bill. Split children into various rooms, some that have testing and some don’t, so that kids aren’t noticing everyone who isn’t there).
I don’t blame the schools. They run a tight budget, and need every penny that the parents agreed to. When they don’t receive it, hard working teachers can’t get paid (risk losing their home/ car/ children’s tuition), and eventually the school may fold. 2 schools in Lakewood recently closed for funding issues. This didn’t just hurt the families who couldn’t pay. Now the families that paid full tuition are scrambling to get their daughters into a new school, teachers are looking for new jobs, etc.
If you couldn’t pay rent or a car payment, they would take away your home/ car. If you were to eat groceries or put on store clothes and not pay when you leave, it’s stealing. And it’s hard, because if you sit down and add up the cost of rent with utilities, food, car/ bus, expenses (clothes/ medical), and 4 tuitions, you’ll realize that it’s unaffordable, but your child can’t be uneducated because of that. And too much has to change for people to fix the system.July 30, 2019 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #1767385
Why would parents deliberately send their children to a school that requires all past-due accounts to be settled before the beginning of the new school year when they know they have bills due or otherwise have negotiated a re-payment with school administrators. It is abusive to send your children into a situation where you know they will be embarrassed.July 30, 2019 12:10 pm at 12:10 pm #1767381
Is there a citation for the remark by Reb Moshe Feinstein ZT”L? I am curious what the details of this situation were, and the degree to which he intended this comment to be general.
Now to my comments.
Every yeshiva will have its own formula for its income, tuition, government funds, charitable funds, etc. What works for one may not be the same for another. Yeshivos establish their tuition scales based on the degree of dependence they carry on tuition for their income and operations. To the best we can tell, yeshivos, at least a majority, operate in the red, and struggle with many of their expenses. Some prioritize salaries for faculty, others do not. And most rebbeim and teachers are seriously underpaid. Periodically, the faculty that is behind on receiving paychecks make enough noise to compel the administration to take extra steps to insure they get paid. This is common, and not fun for anyone. Just how many online campaigns for yeshivos did you receive requests and donated? So the lack of adequate funding is pretty much standard.
Now the rub. Fund raising is a gamble, and some do it well, others less so. If there is already a commitment for someone to pay, it stands to reason that this debt should be paid. As earlier comments noted, it is usually the parents that have less and are already struggling themselves that bear the brunt of this pressure. And the only force the yeshivos know is to block entry to the kids. That’s their clout. I think this is cruel and unusual punishment, directed at a purely innocent child, and extremely destructive. The absence from yeshiva is nasty, the shame heaped on children is tantamount to murder, and the whole campaign is ill conceived. Yeshivos do it because they can, not because it’s right or moral.
My income was seasonal, and I had agreements with the administration before the school year that I would not be subjected to this strong arm tactic. And the schools were never without a fully paid balance by year’s end. But they had lied, and did it anyway. This required me to take time off work. No phone calls helped. And even really small outstanding balances prompted the same treatment, as if the greed for the few dollars owed was a valuable lesson for the school.
I suggest that some creative minds propose methods that are better routed in morality, better conceived to avoid use of shame, better focused on the use of education rather than the blockade, that can enable yeshivos to manage their finances without the need to bully parents. I don’t have the answers. I just know that this method is unacceptable.July 30, 2019 12:10 pm at 12:10 pm #1767374
Monopolies don’t solve problems.July 30, 2019 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #1767419
Let’s see: The goyim make sure every child gets into a school, irregardless of the parents income or ability to pay, The parents have zero income and pay zero in taxes — no worry, all their children get into school for free. The parents are illegal aliens and don’t even belong in the country? Still no problem, their children get a free education in school even though their parents pay zip.
But some “yeshivos” throw out Yiddishe kinder into the street or into public school because their parents can’t afford to pay? Even if their parents can afford to pay a dime!
So who is better — the pruste goyim or the administrators of those “yeshivos” that throw Yiddishe kinder into the street because their parents are poor?July 30, 2019 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #1767425
“So who is better — the pruste goyim or the administrators of those “yeshivos” that throw Yiddishe kinder into the street because their parents are poor”
At the end of the day, if a Yeshiva or Beis Yaakov cannot pay its bills, it will close its doors and ALL of its talmidim will suffer. Yes, its sad if a yeshiva must exclude some to assure that the institution remains solvent. Almost every yeshiva I know has a substantial portion of its enrollment on some type of discount or tuition assistance but at some point, the responsibility to fund the residual tuition obligations are on the family , not the beleaguered school administrators. They cannot tell their teachers that their paychecks will be “late” because a few parents did not pay their tuition.July 30, 2019 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #1767426bk613Participant
Lets see: The Public school system has unlimited funding via tax payer dollars. So yes, they can afford to accept a child with no thoughts about the cost involved. Private schools (Jewish/Christian/Islamic/Non- religious) aren’t funded by the tax payers and thus have a limited budget and at the end of the day have to meet payroll, pay the bills and all other expenses that come with running a school. Your comparison between Yeshiva administrators and Public School administrators is (not surprisingly) appalling and dishonest.
As an aside, many illegal immigrants (estimated by Congressional Budget Office at 50-75%) pay Federal/State/local taxes, and all of them pay taxes like sales tax. I’m not saying the taxes they pay into the system offsets what they take out, but saying they “pay zip” isn’t completely true either.July 30, 2019 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #1767435
I was once extreme in my opinion about this, as you seem to be. But there is a harsh reality that I do not need to face as an outsider to the office of the school. I do not need to pay their bills. I will not be the one cornered by the electric company when the bill goes unpaid, and I will not be the target when the gas bill, the mortgage, and salaries of the faculty and staff fall into default. Who pays the bills? Some years ago, there was a bit more generosity among state and local governments. Not any more. Now what? This is a dilemma. Arguing one side of that equation is a dishonest debate. That’s why I suggest there be some creative minds here to brainstorm for ideas, as the traditional approaches seem to have failed.
Throwing kids out is intolerable. I will refer you to discussions at conventions of Torah Umesorah where the subject has been raised several times, and I recall hearing a recording of one of those presentations. The Roshei Yeshivos were unanimously against expelling a student for inability to pay, and the intensity of their resistance to the practice is amplified when the matter involves midyear. Exceptions for end of year expulsions can be made under specific situations, where the family has obviously spent sizable sums of money for optional luxuries, such as overseas travel vacations, purchasing expensive new cars, and still failed to address the outstanding tuition balances.
Aside from the throwing out of kids, the shaming of children is a tool used way too often in chinuch (sometimes by parents, more often by mechanchim). There is no heter according to halacha for this. Some of the greatest of Gedolim addressed this subject, with minimal impact. Emotional murder, spiritual murder, and physical murder are quite similar in the severity of the issurim involved. Any of these done for financial reasons is a good reason for someone to be expelled from chinuch as a career.July 30, 2019 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #1767511
I apologize for this late reply, but have had a client trial the past 2 weeks and little time for diversion.
Yes, I was able to pay my children’s tuition, by hard work and sacrificing other things. My kids and grandkids didn’t/don’t go to summer camp, they spend the summer here under family supervision at a much lower cost.
I was part of the movecause of ment to get out local day schools/yeshivas made constituent agencies of Federation for funding purposes. It also allows the Jewish Family Service to do the scholarship screening and tuition determination. This keeps all private information truly private and real professionals determine need.
In the late 1970s I spearheaded a major area fundraising campaign to guaranty no Jewish child would be turned away from the local school because of tuition needs. We raised more than $5Million from the greater community for an endowment. The endowment is managed by professionals of the local Jewish Foundation. No yeshiva administration can dip into the scholarship endowment for operational funds or to fix a leaky roof.
We have convinced local institutions to share costs and purchasing. The Chabad school and the Schechter school made a combined deal for computers and science lab equipment at a much lower cost than either could get alone.
We established a committee of professionals to write grant applications for funding from many private corporations. Most yeshivos don’t think the Fortune 500 Goyische companies are a funding source, but they are.
My youngest graduated high school years ago, but that did not stop my commitment to raise and give tuition assistance funds. There are many like me here OOT who are willing to work with the non-Frum community to assure Jewish education. I don’t see this cooperation in town.
As for your last request for donations to a specific yeshiva, let me tell you about the fundraising system in place in our area day schools for at least 35 years. In addition to tuition, each family is required to fundraise XXX dollars per year (selling raffle tickets, etc) OR write a check in that xxx amount. Those who can afford to write a check do so, others work hard to raise the charity funds. The schools also give x dollars credit for those who volunteer at school events, etc. It is not unusual to see grandmothers helping in the cafeteria every day. They get the benefit of being out of the house with young people and while not paid, the value of their time counts towards a family’s obligation.
What could you offer the school to offset some tuition and save them on expenses? You need to be creative in your approach. One of my neighbors had his teenage boys cut the Day school lawn and plowed snow in exchange for a needed tuition breakJuly 30, 2019 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #1767518anonymous JewParticipant
Joseph, this time you’ve really gone off the rails. Public schools are supported by tax dollars of ALL people, whether they have children in school or not. Yeshivas are supported only by parents of the students. Big difference. Public schools are legally required to accept all students, yeshivas are not.July 30, 2019 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #1767573
AJ: You’re wrong. Yeshivas receive donations from benefactors who have no children in the Yeshiva.
Your last sentence is exactly the attitude I wrote against in my last comment. Every Yiddishe child must be accepted by a Yeshiva. EVEN if the child’s parents are dirt poor and cannot pay a penny and cannot raise sufficient funds.July 31, 2019 7:59 am at 7:59 am #1767632
You are correct. There should be No Child Left Behind. You are stuck in the ideal. There is a different reality on the ground, which displeases me greatly. The Public School system is a system. If a child a cannot attend School #1, he can go to School #2. They are all under a single umbrella, and the responsibility is not the individual school. And that system is taxpayer funded. Not so the yeshivos. Our yeshivos are private enterprises which compete. If a child is not accepted by Yeshiva #1, there is nothing that presses admission to Yeshiva #2. Nothing. No one accepts the responsibility to insure that every child has a yeshiva. No one. Our community has generous people who volunteer time and effort, without remuneration, to place children in yeshivos. While I doubt the common reason for the difficulty is finances, I bet that happens, too. We should never need such services, but sadly we do. The frequent comment from menahalim regarding such a child is, “Why should I accept that tzoroh? Let someone else do it.”
The reality is that we have a culture of very poor families, and that many will suffer the consequences. I am not justifying the rejection of a Jewish child. I am stating that the system of competing yeshivos, that are competing for reputation and the limited amount of funds available is reality. Changing that would be welcome, but that is a fantasy. And I doubt that the intervention of the richest benefactors would accomplish the goal of revamping the “system”.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.