March 13, 2013 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #608589
A post today on the YWN newsfeed informs us that there is a Badatz Hechsher this year in Israel for Kosher LePesach cigarettes.
Seriously? Being Oiver Ushmartem Meod es Nafshoseiochem (and the elements of R’ M Feinstein’s 1963 and 1981 psaks -dashu bei rabim and shomer petaim Hashem- that mitigate against issur are recognized differently across the board today as fewer people engage in it and more people are fully aware of its dangers) is OK, as long as you aren’t being oiver bal yiroeh bal yimotzeh?
Forest for the trees….March 13, 2013 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #938040BaalHaboozeParticipant
You bring up a GREAT point! Besides, if those who are addicted for many years (i.e. the only ones I can be somewhat be moire heter for) have gone without cigarettes every pesach till now….March 13, 2013 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #938041🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
yichusdik: I do agree with you. I also understand why they did it. In Israel many people smoke and will smoke regardless of whether or not they have kosher l’pesach cigarettes. Why make them be oiver on two aveiros when you can limit it to one?March 13, 2013 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #938042truthsharerMember
Gamanit, for the same reason single girls don’t go to mikvah.March 13, 2013 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #938043crisisoftheweekMember
Wanna know why they did it??
$$$$March 13, 2013 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #938044apushatayidParticipant
the way I see it. if someone is foolish enough to pay for it, I might as well be the one smart enough to charge for it.March 13, 2013 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #938045The little I knowParticipant
This is as smart as Kosher lePesach chazzer.March 13, 2013 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #938046WIYMember
I wonder when all these talmidei chachamim have time to smoke…March 13, 2013 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #938047
The Hechsher is from kashrus expert R’ Yosef Zaritzky, can everyone ask him to remove it, he answers all questions and his number is 054-848-4044. Yichusdik Rav Dovid Feinstein is quoted in ???? ??? ?????? ???”? ??’ ??”? saying that according to Rav Moshe now it’s surely assur to smoke, as ????? ??? ??”? ?”? ??’ ?”? based the heter on a “??? ????”.March 13, 2013 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #938048ari-freeParticipant
Kosher for Pesach chazir I can understand if you want to feed to your dog. This is more like giving hashgacha to a restaurant with belly dancingMarch 13, 2013 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #938049
For the record, there is at least one very choshuv posek (and likely more) who held smoking is muttar. I am referring to Dayan Fisher, who is reputed to have responded to the question by taking a long drag and exhaling “muttaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar”.March 13, 2013 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #938050
popa_bar_abba True, Dayan Fisher died from COPD and said it wasn’t from smoking. Rav Moshe Shternbuch scram at him saying it was from smoking.March 13, 2013 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #938052The Kanoi Next DoorMember
There are poskim who hold that smoking is muttar; I would imagine that these cigarettes are catered towards them.March 14, 2013 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #938053
Dear Kanoi Next Door,
The following is a partial list of poskim who Asur smoking,
[sources were posted already at http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/smoking-why-should-it-be-muttar%5D
R’ Ahron Kotler,
R’ Yaakov Kaminetsky,
R’ Chaim Kanievsky,
R’ Dovid Feinstein,
the Be’er Moshe,
the Tzitz Eliezer,
R’ Moshe Shternbuch,
R’ Osher Veis,
the Rivvos Ephraim,
R’ Nissim Karelitz,
R’ Ovadia Yosef,
R’ Bentzion Aba Shaul,
R’ Shlomo Zalman Aurbach
and Rav Shmuel Aurbach
among many others.
You cannot do any act that allows or encourages a Sakana, even if the other person holds it’s Mutar. In fact one is obligated to be Mechalel Shabbos to save someone from danger, and even if it’s against that persons will, and even if the risk is only small, and even if it’s only a long term risk!
In reality what this Baal Hamachsir is (unintentionally) doing is aiding Retzicha, and helping cause families of Almanos and Yesomim.
He’ll never even know who.March 14, 2013 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #938054The little I knowParticipant
To PBA and Kanoi:
Dayan Fisher ZT”L, ?????? ?????, was not eligible to pasken the question about smoking. He was himself seriously addicted. In his last years, his status was so impaired that he required oxygen most of the day. He was seen disconnecting his oxygen to smoke many times a day. This is the addict that is eventually allowed to continue the drug use because there is no way he will stop it and establish abstinence. The other poskim were unanimous, and his being excluded from eligibility to pasken leaves us with no choice other than to recognize the universality of the issur. It is still bothersome to see any Yid smoking, and I wish them a Divine inspiration that clarifies the needs for them to quit. No one said it’s easy, but having a habit to an issur is not an exemption.March 15, 2013 4:07 am at 4:07 am #938055
the little I know:
That is apikorsus.March 15, 2013 4:38 am at 4:38 am #938056HealthParticipant
zvei dinim -“You cannot do any act that allows or encourages a Sakana, even if the other person holds it’s Mutar. In fact one is obligated to be Mechalel Shabbos to save someone from danger, and even if it’s against that persons will, and even if the risk is only small, and even if it’s only a long term risk!
In reality what this Baal Hamachsir is (unintentionally) doing is aiding Retzicha, and helping cause families of Almanos and Yesomim.”
Let’s get real here. And you know I’m in the medical field and always post against lighting up.
This guy isn’t doing anything wrong. These people will smoke on Pesach anyway. All he’s doing is making a quick buck on some Machmirim that think everything is a Chashash Chometz. It’s Muttar M’Ikar Hadin for a few reasons on Pesach. This has nothing to do whether he thinks smoking is ok or not!March 15, 2013 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #938058
Health, precisely my point. We know there is a minority opinion permitting smoking, which is shrinking by the year. We know there are people who are looking for chumras to apply to themselves. What I didn’t know, perhaps naively, was that there was ANY halachic authority who would leverage these realities to, as you put it, “make a quick buck”. That kind of thinking and acting is, or should be, michutz lamachane. It is beneath the dignity of Torah and of anyone purporting to be a halachic authority. Forest for the trees.
When the xtians condemned us as pharisees who would twist “the law” through legalisms to make the obviously immoral halachically viable, I spent considerable time in anti-missionary work disputing that assertion, among other falsehoods. Reading about this, I am not so sure they were 100% wrong. Every lie has a grain of truth from which it grows. This hechsher is a crying shame.March 15, 2013 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #938059
“This guy isn’t doing anything wrong. These people will smoke on Pesach anyway. All he’s doing is making a quick buck on some Machmirim that think everything is a Chashash Chometz. It’s Muttar M’Ikar Hadin for a few reasons on Pesach.”
Rav Elyashiv, Rav Moshe Shternbuch, Rav Nisim Karelitz and Rav Yisroel Belsky and many others hold that cigarettes are Asur on Pesach. In the Litvishe Velt (at least in E.Y.) almost no one smokes Pesach.March 15, 2013 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #938060WIYMember
If they can quit for 8 days then they can quit for longer. They have no excuse for picking it up again after yom tov is over.March 17, 2013 4:48 am at 4:48 am #938061HealthParticipant
zvei dinim -“Rav Elyashiv, Rav Moshe Shternbuch, Rav Nisim Karelitz and Rav Yisroel Belsky and many others hold that cigarettes are Asur on Pesach. In the Litvishe Velt (at least in E.Y.) almost no one smokes Pesach.”
I didn’t know that. Why do they Assur on Pesach – because of Chometz or because it’s Yom Tov? Do they Assur also all the time?
So Yichusdik is wrong. This Rabbi is doing the smokers a Chessed because he is helping them Not to do added Issurim.March 17, 2013 6:04 am at 6:04 am #938062rebdonielMember
Cigarettes are unhealthy, but so is eating an amalgamation of high fructose corn syrup and hydrogenated fats/oils (frum brands of parve ice cream).
Likewise, Pesach mayonnaise is made with cottonseed oil- this is genetically modified, contains high amounts of Omega 6 fatty acids, and pesticide residues.
Also, the Bissli for Pesah is loaded with MSG, and Pesah potato chips are also fried in cottonseed oil.
Trans fats galore exist in Kinneret parve creamers and whipped topping; partially hydrogenated palm kernel oil in the Kinneret Pesah parve cream have been associated with numerous health issues including cancer, heart disease, immune system dysfunction, sterility, learning disabilities, growth problems and osteoporosis.
I don’t condone smoking, but the fact of the matter is that people are going to smoke and eat foods that aren’t the best for them, despite the Torah’s injunction to care for one’s health.
But I felt that to be consistent, if you condemn Pesah cigarettes for being unhealthy but deemed “mutar” by a hashgaha, what do you do with all the Pesah foods made with trans fat, hydrogenated oils, MSG, etc.?March 17, 2013 11:23 am at 11:23 am #938063no longer need seminaryMember
Familiar Chemicals in Cigarettes:
carbon monoxide found in car exhaust
nicotine found in bug sprays
tar: material to make roads
arsenic found in rat poison
ammonia found in cleaning products
hydrogen cyanide found in gas chamber poison
cyanide found in deadly poison
acetone found in nail polish remover
butane found in cigarette lighter fluid
DDT found in insecticides
formaldehyde: to preserve dead bodies
sulfuric acid found in car batteries
cadmium: used to recharge batteries
freon: damages earth’s ozone layer
geranic acid: a fragrance
methoprene: a pesticide
maltitol: a sweetener not permitted to be used in foods in the U.S.
There are over 400 chemicals in cigarrettes these are just a few.
STOP SMOKING!!!!March 17, 2013 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #938064ED IT ORParticipant
Besides for Halachic implications
SMOKING IS STUPID
official verified poll in uk 80% of smokers regret starting and are trying to stopMarch 17, 2013 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #938065
need seminary: you can make a list that looks like that for most foods.March 18, 2013 1:47 am at 1:47 am #938066HolyMoeParticipant
Rav Vosner in Shevet Haleivi 10:295 writes regarding smoking:
???? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????, ?? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ????????? ??? ???? ??? ???.
?? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???????, ????? ????? ?? ???”?
“whoever has in his power to avoid aiding smokers [smoke] is obligated to do so”March 18, 2013 11:15 am at 11:15 am #938067no longer need seminaryMember
I didn’t make the list. I got it from the paperMarch 18, 2013 1:59 pm at 1:59 pm #938068
Yup, Health, Chesed. Because when Rabonim in the Kashrus business get up in the morning, and think about how to apply their expertise for the benefit of klal yisroel (Assuming that this hechsher isn’t about making a buck) they immediately think about how they can do so while permitting people to shorten their own lives, put an increased burden on the health care system (and hence on everyone paying for it through taxes) and make it increasingly unlikely that they will be around to play with their grandchildren, chas vesholom. Yup, sounds like the thought process of reasonable, rational, rabonim.
Seriously?March 18, 2013 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #938069MDGParticipant
There is a big difference between bad food additives, like MSG and PHO, and cigarettes. Cigarettes have for more carcinogens; they are far more addictive (nicotine is one of the most addictive chemicals); and they harm people around them.
You never heard of a 6 bag a day addiction to Bissli. Nor have you heard of the danger of just being near someone else eating too much Bissli, unlike 2nd hand smoke.March 18, 2013 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #938070zahavasdadParticipant
Health issues aside, I think there is actual Chometz in the Ciggerettes, I think its the glue that holds the paper or somethingMarch 18, 2013 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #938071old manParticipant
“Dayan Fisher ZT”L, ?????? ?????, was not eligible to pasken the question about smoking.”
This is a very interesting suggestion, that a posek disqualifies himself from an issue because of his intimate association with it. In other words, his negius is posel. After all, considering that the Dayan zt”l could not stop smoking, how could he possibly have determined the halachah objectively? He inevitably would be matir.
On the other hand, if that posek is bringing proofs or support for his opinion, those proofs must be dealt with like in any other halachic discussion if one is to disagree. The negius may exist but becomes irrelevant.
I call this one a tossup. That said, the whole issue of halachically prohibiting smoking is irrelevant. Most people don’t smoke because society has determined that it is a disgusting habit (I agree). And people who do stop, don’t do so because of an issur.
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