July 11, 2021 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #1990530
We bemoan our place, repugnant and despised,
But Hashem, a plan He has devised
Something from nothing, He needed to create
Iest His chosen assimilate
Scholars wonder, ponder and speculate
For the universal enemy, in their hearts a cold slumbering hate
Laws He created, heaven and earth silently obey,
halacha yeduah… deny it as we may
In this world we have but One,
Privileged to be called His beloved son
Cast out from afar, into galus we were exiled,
And until the throne is complete, we are instinctively reviled
Some walk along them, blissfully unaware,
Of the eyes of fire, the whisper and the stare
Yet we flaunt and show…without a moment’s care
Our houses in the sky,
beckoning envy of all passerby
Were we to learn to live simply,
And sprout ears to listen, and eyes to see,
How we can avoid unspeakable tragedy
Instead we protest, and claim the rights of the nations,
A sea of ink spilled in publications,
Speeches, petitions and several organizations
Attacking the rod and not seeing the source,
We scream for decency, that they should have remorse
But if to be in peace we pray,
From the mesora we must never stray.July 11, 2021 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #1990566
The Klei Yakar says in Parashas Devorim on Penu lochem tzofano, to be hidden in galus and not show off to incite the goyim and create our own anti-semitism. Also, see the Meshech Chachma in Parashas Bechukosai on Veaf gam zos to realize we are in galus and not think that Berlin is Jerusalem.July 11, 2021 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #1990591
And not have a fancy mansion or ostentatious displays of wealth.July 12, 2021 1:23 am at 1:23 am #1990608
I wrote this during the spat of random attacks on yidden in 2019July 12, 2021 1:49 am at 1:49 am #1990612🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Well doneJuly 12, 2021 9:50 am at 9:50 am #1990673
The Meshech Hachma and Chasam Sofer say, in a small measure anti-semitism is good for us to protect us from assimilation.July 12, 2021 10:56 am at 10:56 am #1990707
@UJM,” And not have a fancy mansion or ostentatious displays of wealth.”
Prof. Aaron Twerski wrote in this week Hamodia about Anti Semitism, he wrote that alot second and third generation post war have no feel for golus, someone had built a mega mansion and when the father came to visit he was mortified, he said this is not the way we live in golus and never came back to that house and this was a very very wealthy man.
Yes we are in golus be it in Boro Park, Monsey, London and even in Efrat or the Old City we are in golus,July 12, 2021 1:16 pm at 1:16 pm #1990763
I’m really glad to see people appreciate the message i was trying to convey; i like writing poems about hashkafa issues, maybe I’ll post some more at some point since people seem to like itJuly 13, 2021 12:48 am at 12:48 am #1990954
Sorry Common Saychel, In Efrat and the Old City and all of Eretz Yisroel we are NOT in golus!!! We are geographically HOME! We are in a TIME of golus but there is a HUGE difference between the golus of Boro Park, Monsey and London and non- golus of Eretz Yisroel. I love when people call Eretz Yisroel galus. It’s such a cop-out! Hashem is here waiting for you all to come home but you guys are just too comfortable in your ‘golus’ to see straight!July 13, 2021 8:03 am at 8:03 am #1991001
but there is a HUGE difference between the golus of Boro Park, Monsey and London and non- golus of Eretz Yisroel.
Oh Really? was it a non golus prior to 1948? by all mean please explain the difference, People like Rabbi YC Sonnenfeld knew they were living in Yerusalam but were in Golus regardless of where you are.July 13, 2021 8:07 am at 8:07 am #1990974
Eval – I’ve lived in eretz yisroel; it’s wonderful, full of Torah in the right parts.
Then the government tries to come and wipe all of that out. They already succeeded in erasing Torah from sefardim by and large, but they won’t be happy until there isn’t any more torah. Infanticide, toeva parades, antisemitic media with Nazi-esque caricatures of charedim, massive chilul shabbos, an army full of znus….how is that not galus? If i walk in Lakewood, i feel pretty much the same as i did in eretz yisroel, because Torah is the portable home of klal yisroel. We want geulah not for the physical return to eretz yisroel, but a return to vesechezenah einainu beshuvcho letzion, to see Hashem returning his schinah to us, to serve him with the mitzvos that we cannot do at this time, for the whole world to finally see kovod shomayim and romemus yisroel… that is geulah.
Bemhayroh veyameinu amen
Even for you, wasn’t gush katif and pulling out of gaza enough of a reason to see that you’re just as much in galus there as you are anywhere else?July 13, 2021 11:38 am at 11:38 am #1991086
CS. I don’t get it. What does 1948 have to do with anything? Eretz Yisroel is geographically NOT GALUS! The time period may be golus but the PLACE IS NOT! And AVIRA nothing that you said disproves my point. You actually have just given a good defense for the fact that EY is NOT GEOGRAPHICALLY GOLUS no matter what’s happening here! And by the way, why are the chareidim so upset with the current Israeli gov’t? One big reason, no more funds for Yeshivas and child care. What’s the maskunu? That until now, the ZIONIST STATE HAS BEEN FINANCING MOST OF THE TORAH LEARNING IN THIS COUNTRY! You really got me confused there? It seems to me that when Moshiach comes, as far as you are concerned, you’re staying in Lakewood. Is that correct?July 13, 2021 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #1991108
The ramban explains that galus is not a place, but a state. Sin hashem shaleim veaim hakiseo shalem, there is no gilui shechina, nor kovod shomayim..
in mussaf we say mepnei chataeinu GALINU mayartzeinu, even though in the times of chazal there definitely were people living in eretz yisroel.
Geography has nothing to do with it…. it’s a spiritual state of subjugation. The brisker rov zy”a used to say that far from being the aschalta degeulah, the state is the sof galus…
The state only funded torah because menachem begin – the closest thing we’ve ever had to a religious prime minister – was very friendly to and respective of charedim, especially rav shach.
Many charedim, including my rebbeim in bais brisk, refuse any and all money from the government. That was an old machlokes.
It doesn’t mitigate any of the atrocities mentioned above.July 13, 2021 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #1991249
Avira, I’m so glad that you mentioned the Ramban. When he made Aliya, he couldn’t even find a minyan of men to daven with. I think there were 2 other Jews in all of Yerushalayim. Do you think the Ramban felt the same way in EY as in Galus? ie: Chul. He probably felt much worse! Since when are our feelings determining factors for kiyum mitzvos. Certainly not by Briskers like yourself. Your GALINU MARTZENU pshat deserves the booby prize! You would make a terrible lawyer! MOST of Am Yisrael was led into the diaspora. So according to your pshat what does GALINU MARTZAYNU mean? And why is it relevant why the state of Israel supports Torah? It’s a fact!July 13, 2021 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #1991263
The Yechaveh Daas (1,43) from Rav Avadyah Yosef ztz’l whether to say Nachem currently, He concludes that we are still in galus.July 13, 2021 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #1991275
My point is that the overwhelming majority of what the state of Israel does was and is determined towards the undermining of Torah, whether or not they financially support yeshivos. Mitzrayim “supported” Torah since they made the leviim free to engage in Torah study. If Iran had some sort of stipend program for clergy students, I doubt that would change your opinion of them.
Israel believes in baby killing, toevos, chilul shabbos and senseless endless war that puts jews in danger. They believe in indoctrination of the youth in the army, kidnapping thousands of Yemenite jewish children and raising them secular….the list of blood and shmad goes on and on, so no, i really don’t care if they throw some misbegotten shekels our way.
My argument is that chazal called it galus even though Jews lived there. Jews live there now, but that does not change the state of being that is galus. As long as we’re not taken back komemius leartzeinu with Hashem, we are cast out spiritually.
Eretz yisroel grants a person a lot og spiritual gifts; i personally am not on the level to see a difference between Lakewood and Eretz yisroel, but there definitely is a difference. However I’d take Lakewood over chaifa or tel aviv anyday, because the Torah can be anywhere, but soul pollution of secular israeli culture is only more miasmic in eretz hakodesh than outside.July 13, 2021 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #1991289LogicianParticipant
Bear in mind that the entire Galus Yavan did not involve ANY geographical displacement. Apparently that is not the essential ingredient of GalusJuly 13, 2021 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #1991298
> Meshech Hachma and Chasam Sofer say, in a small measure anti-semitism is good for us to protect us from assimilation.
Rav Schach writes that if there were no Arab hate, then early Zionists would quickly go study at Uiveristies of Beirut and Cairo and assimilated. So, Hashem protected them thru these hate. Side note: this means that r Schach clearly cared about those Kibutznikim.July 13, 2021 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1991299
> Galus Yavan did not involve ANY geographical displacement
a good point. It did not involve political subjugation. Do we count times when Jews had political power, such as Herod and Yannai times, as part of galus? I don’t think so, do we?July 13, 2021 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #1991305
Listened to R A Leibowitz discussing Bava Kamma agada about R Eliezer Zeeri arrested by Resh Galuta for the hutzpah of wearing black shoes as mourning for Yerushalaim. R Eliezer puzzles him with the question – how much you pay for cutting down the palm tree. Resh G first offers just the cost of the tree. When asked – what about future dates, then he offers tree + future dates. Correct answer is in between and estimated using market value – ask for a price of a whole field with and without the tree, and damage is the difference.
R Leibowitz darshens: Resh Galuta = someone who is comfortable in Galut.
First price of just the tree – discounts the future produce (potential), sees only current sorry state of Yerushalaim and does not appreciate the miracles that grow there (see Avira above)
Second price – tree + dates – assumes as if all the dates are surely going to grow as if they are already here and, thus, can be charged for. This is over-optimism and not realistic.
Real price can be seen in the context of the value within the whole field – appreciate the potential but be realistic to what you have now.July 13, 2021 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #1991309
Avira > The state only funded torah because menachem begin – the closest thing we’ve ever had to a religious prime minister – was very friendly to and respective of charedim, especially rav shach.
Many charedim, including my rebbeim in bais brisk, refuse any and all money from the government.
Not taking money from the government is a respectful position comparing with those who disparage but take (more than fair share). I am not sure how logical it is – it is very hard to deny that having Medinat Israel, and simply millions of Jews in Israel, has no significance. Just think of all Sephardim, Yemenites, Russians, Ethiopeans who escaped prosecution and found home in Israel. Would they be in good shape during Iraq-Iran war or under Asads? And even the Kibutznikim – would they have been better of, if they joined Bund in Poland or Communists in Soviet Russia?
You seem to compare against an ideal, while you need to compare against realistic alternatives.July 19, 2021 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #1992971
AAQ – Those who disparage Medinat Yisrael but take from it….
Do you feel the same way about those who ‘disparage’ the Nazi’s but still take from Germany?
I am NOT comparing the Zionists to the Nazis, but the moshol is accurate.
Why should i not claim back property that my grandfathers’ murderer stole? It’s MY money, and I deserve it. And taking (part of) what is righfully mine does not mean i forgive him for killing my grandfather.
The zionists indirectly caused the death of thousands of Yidden, primarily during the War (including one famous instance when they prevented money from Rav Wiessmandel being passed on to the Nazis in return for Jewish lives) They knew that Israel will be built on the ashes of the Holocaust, and they needed more ashes….
This is all BESIDES for what they did to the spiritual lives of Ashkenzim and Sefardim alike…..
The paltry allowance they give to Torah Institutions compared to the millions they pour into general education and ‘culture’, comes from the money they we, the Charedim, are generating for the Israeli economy by just living.
The Charedi world brings billions of pure profit into the country. The amount of zedoko that we raise abroad far outweighs ‘exports’ – all the funds are pure profit. Every Yeshiva, Kolel, and Yerushalmi making chasunas, is doing so much for the economy of the Medina.
Yeshivas Mir is a goldmine for Israel.
Belz, Ger, Vishnitz.
Every Simcha, Every Chol Hamoed, Lag b’Omer in Meron.
The Kosel, Kever Rochel etc.
Har Menuchos and Har Hazezim. Even Bet Shemesh.
All the retirees that move to retiremnet homes in Israel.
And in return the Israeli government generously gives 800 NIS stipend to yungerleit. 500 to a bochur. Nothing compared to what they are giving exaggerated amounts to universities who waste a lot of the allowances on trivialities.
The Charedi world costs the economy almost nothing in the way of policing, court systems, prison-complexes etc.
The crime rate is practically zero. No murders, no drugs (almost?), graffiti, drunken driving, gangs, shoplifting, etc. But we still pay taxes.
Even if all the charedim paid was just VAT, we still would not be getting a fraction of what we are paying and what we contribute to the economy.
The export of Seforim and Judacia, is almost entirely from the Charedi sector. Are we getting anything in return? A measly 1380 NIS ($422) child benefits …… to cover the cost of 8 kids!
Enough said. Maybe I’ll elaborate another time.July 19, 2021 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #1992969
AAQ – it’s all very nice that Israel provided refuge for all those poor suffering sefardim who were being persocuted in their home countries. Just a little historical fact – before the Zionists raised the issue of a Jewish State, those poor suffering sefardim were prospering econmically, and were popular and poerful, politically. The Zionists caused all the damage. They stirred up the Arab world, and more than indirectly caused untold harm and damage to a million Sefardim who were doing quite OK for themselves in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Morocco, Tehran, Libya etc. etc.
And when those upper class Sefardim finally came, at the graces of the kind Ashkenazik Tziyonim, they were treated like dirt, abused and disgraced, made to do manual labour (when they have been in high govermental offices, with higher education etc.)
So no, the Israeli goverment gets no credit for ‘saving’ the Yidden that they brought over. They make the problem in the first place, and did not do much in the way of rectifying the damage.July 20, 2021 7:04 am at 7:04 am #1993028
GotAPoint, I hear your bitterness and I am familiar with all the issue you are raising from R Wissmandel to Sephardim. At some point, worked with my kid on an essay describing how Begin looked differently at Sephardim addressing them as heirs of Rambam, rather than poor cousins. Another example of ideological bias in Zionist development was emphasis on kibutzim pre WW2 v. development of Tel Aviv manufacturing. Sochnut inserted itself between donors and recipients who wanted to support T-A as manufacturing was providing additional jobs and thus a place for immigrants to come, while kibutzim were providing land and otherwise was a bottomless pit. I saw research computing how many would have come pre-war from Europe and did not, sad…
Still, I think your recounting of Haredi contributions is way biased. Again, I understand pretty much where this coming from and is passed along for several generations already. For one, there is no reshus to disregard your obligations just because you think you were cheated somewhere else. See Rav Huna with his spoiled wine who did not want to pay workers who already “helped themselves”, was rebutted by other chachamim and deserved a miracle for teshuvah, either open (vinegar -> wine) or hidden (vinegar price up).
We in America also pay taxes, while murdering less, paying for schools we do not use, and sometimes have to move to a different neighborhood when government policies lead to disaster. Most of us do not see this as a reason to cheat or hate the country. So, I surmise, your bitterness is more due to the fact that these are specifically Jews who are in power and do think that you disagree with. It is, of course, understandable. The closer we are, the more we expect and the more we react to problems. So, you just need to acknowledge that.July 21, 2021 11:02 am at 11:02 am #1993458
I agree wholeheartedly with gotapoint; the belzer rov zy’a made the same points in his psak that one may take money from the government. The majority of poskim – charedi poskim, allow it, with the yerushalmis and briskers being a minority.
I would add to his description of the plight of the sefardim that there were no less than one million sefardi refugees who were yhrown out of their homes…they had lived in arab lands for half a millenium, unlike us ashkenazim who moved around every 100 years, sometimes far less depending on when we were expelled.
More jews died in Israel due to terror attacks than did in anti semitic assaults in arab lands prior to zionism. Attacking jews was forbidden under islamic law, and a punishable offense.
AAQ – rav chaim kanievsky, hardly a kanoi on these issues, writes that the state of israel is illegitimate and therefore has no force of Dina dimalchusa regarding taxes. I also agree that theoretically one may decry the evils of zionism while receiving money that would otherwise go to pay for nefarious activities. I’m not one such person, as my rebbeim did not hold of taking anything, with the sole exception of subsidized low-cost food which even the satmar rov zy’a allowed, for a number of reasons. I’m referring to the cost of food in the store, not a government program like WIC or food stamps; here you’re just getting a discount if you happen to buy food basics in lower income areas, including charedi neighborhoods.July 21, 2021 11:05 am at 11:05 am #1993459
Is having America – which has more jews than Israel – not the same level of significance? Why do we not sing halel on the 4th of July? If anything, American independence granted us far more rights, safety and opportunity than the state of Israel, without the wars on body and soul. American jewry is privileged like no other society since zman hamikdash, literally.July 21, 2021 11:15 am at 11:15 am #1993552
The Ran in Nedarim (among others) paskens lhalacha that dina dmalchusa does not apply in Eretz Yisroel. Since the reason for dina dmalchusa is that the local government has no obligation to admit Jews in their country, since they do so we owe them dina dmalchusa dina. On the other hand, every Jew has a Torah right to live in Eretz Yisroel. That right isn’t dependent on the current local governing authority of Eretz Yisroel. As such, the halacha is that dina dmalchusa isn’t in force in Eretz Yisroel.July 21, 2021 1:11 pm at 1:11 pm #1993561
Ben and Jerrys maybe pulled from NYS cafeterias or park concessions because the anti BDS laws wont allow it to be sold in state owned placesJuly 22, 2021 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #1993816
I do not have the time (or koach) to reply to AAQ, Bli neder i will do so when i have enough (of both). But anyway i did not say or indicate that we can break the rules or steal from the gov. (i’m Not saying that one can’t either, i’m staying neutral on that point) but one can disparage them, and it is important to be conscious that we don’t owe them anything. We need not be grateful to them. This is the reason that many dont take moeny form the Medina, so that they should not have a hashpa’a on us. I am saying that those who DO take, like Rav Shach allowed, and the Chazon Ish, the Belzer Rov encouraged, should still not feel favorably dsiposed to those Reshoim, we are simply recovering what is ours.
Re: the great US of A, they own the land and we are guests. But even if we forget that, there is still no comparison to Israel where the Frum kehilla is a good 15% of the population, probably more. And if the zionist had not admitted 1,000,000 russians, then we would have been a much larger percentage, a sectoeer that should be respected and our needs catered for. The minuscule percentage of American Jewry cannot expect as much pull as the chardeim in Israel.
Kept this as short as poss, will BN elaborate on another ocassion.July 22, 2021 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #1993918
> Frum kehilla is a good 15% of the population, probably more
way more – just voters of 3 religious parties is 18% + halfs of 3 more parties + more children. Unless, of course, you limit “frum” to a subset of religious Jews for some strange reason.July 22, 2021 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1993923
>> And if the zionist had not admitted 1,000,000 russians,
First another poster suggests Sefardim will be better off in Islamic State, and, I guess, Russian Jews would be better in Russia. I guess you are OK with Americans as they send you money. There is not much difference between American and Russian Jews except the former moved to Goldene Medina despite the Rabbis warning them about assimilation. This cruelty to the Jewish people borders on obscene.July 22, 2021 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #1993929
I think you are guys are making a legitimate point that you do not want to receive from the regime you do not respect and do not want to feel obliged. I am not 100% sure that the whole community lives up to the good standard you are using, but the principles sound reasonable.
Maybe the best way to advocate for your way of life – and get respect from those who do not trust your approach, would be to fully form your own community without relying on Zionists. Purchase a piece of land from PA or Hamas, or maybe even Syrians, Egyptians, or Jordanians – a lot of these areas might be Eretz Isroel – and form your own tax system, roads, defense forces, or hire someone. If this experiment works, then it will be great Kiddush Hashem, and others will learn from it.July 22, 2021 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #1993933
ujm> On the other hand, every Jew has a Torah right to live in Eretz Yisroel
I heard of this Ran but did not learn it. What is the context – paying taxes to a local hegemon? In the Israeli context, you are not just paying ransom, but for specific services that the government provides. There are halochos that cities can charge for building walls. If you don’t want to pay for, say, IDF, then at least you should not use their protection.July 22, 2021 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #1993944
AAQ: You can’t differentiate between Russian gentiles and Russian Jews? A large portion, likely a majority, of the Russians admitted into the State of Israel are gentiles.July 22, 2021 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #1993991
Need we even mention the Mi Yehudi tragedy and the willingness of the religious zionists to bring complete goyim into klal yisroel simply because they’re israeli, or as one “posek” put it – “they fight in the army and fast on yom kippur, how can you say that they’re not jewish?”
Heartfelt tears of joy run down the face of the immodest gun-bearing female soldier as she is deceived into thinking that she is a member of the jewish people under the guidance of rabbis who are uneducated and brainwashed in the religion of zionisn.July 22, 2021 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #1993994
AAQ – i knew there was more that 15% (especially if you count all the frum who don’t vote…..!) but rounded it down so that someone cynical (like yourself) wouldn’t find some loophole to argue. You managed to argue anyway.
The children are part of the population, but don’t have a say (yet), so that doesn’t count.July 22, 2021 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #1993993
So sorry, i thought it was obvious that the million Russians i was referring to were full-fledged goyim.
The Medina (cant remeber who was Rosh Memshala at the time) was worried that with the growing frum oilam, and the dwindling chiloni crowd, they would soon be outnumbered.
And that is why Lieberman has enough backers to make the anti-charedi laws he’s been promising…..July 22, 2021 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #1994002
AAQ – ”If you don’t want to pay for, say, IDF, then at least you should not use their protection.”
Before the zionists started grating on everybody’s nerves (the British, the Turkish, the UN, the Arab countries) in order to claim Israel, the Yidden were living very peacefully with their Arab neighbours, as other posters have mentioned. The whole Chevron pogrom was a direct result of the Zionists efforts.
If they created the danger, well, they had better provide the protection.
If [xxxxxx kehilla – insert as applicable] in Lakewood would publish provocative front page ads in the NYT that create an anti-Semitic fervor, and the town now needs to hire a team of safety officers, guards, install cameras etc. could you rightfully demand that [xxxxx kehilla] foot the bill?July 22, 2021 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #1994016
Gotagoodpoint – are we the only anti zionist posters on here?July 23, 2021 12:15 am at 12:15 am #1994027
If I understand the first Rashi correctly, it says that we are only entitled to EY if we keep the Torah as it originally was given to the goyim and was taken away from them because we, the Jews, were more worthy but if we don’t keep the Torah, EY would revert back to them.July 23, 2021 11:01 am at 11:01 am #1994088
RebE, someone asked a good kashia: Hashem told each nation a mitzva that was hard for them. We preempted that by saying naase v’nishma. But He surely had one hard for us in case we ask for a sample. What do you think that was?July 23, 2021 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #1994142
AAQ, maybe, living in EY, the palace of the King.July 23, 2021 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #1994155
confused on “Russians”, here in America, peole say “Germans”, “Russians” meaning Jews from those countries. Maybe it is different in Israel. But then when you say “1 million”, you mean all of them, so maybe you now realized that you over-reached. That’s good. Would you judge Jews coming from concentration camps for eating Treif there? Then, maybe you can be more understnading for people who spent 70 years in socialist gan eden…. Looking up research on “Russians”, Several interesting observations, some how Jews are being seen by these immigrants:
Israel, numbers by Rabbinate count:
– up to 1990 – 10-20% non-Jewish
– 40% 1990s
– 55-60% in 2000s
– out of 1 mln total, 350k are non-Jewish. This seems like a slight over-estimate, as there are some who claim to be Jewish but are missing documentation.
politically. leftist researchers complain that Russians lead to Israel becoming a right-wing majority, by the way. Russian-speaking voters have 15 seats in knesset.
80% of newcomers are center-right, their children are 8% (!) more “progressive” than their parents and 25% are left-wing. 1% total voted for Meretz (is it not on par with general population?!) Yesh tikva indeed.. sounds like there are more Meretz voters in Mea Shearim than in Ashdod. 15% for BLue& White in 2019. 40% for Liberman, Likud 27%, Kulanu 6% Labor 2% New Right 3%, Shas 1.5%
– US has 700K, half in NY area, 40% from Ukraine, 30% from Russia
– 60-70% in US self-identify as “definitely Jewish”, 20% somewhat, 15 non-Jewish. I think these US numbers are significant as contrary to Israel, there is no pressure to identify as Jewish. “somewhat” might be a mixture of one Jewish parents and people not very attached in general. I think these numbers are on par with generic “American Jews”
– 25% of marriages are intermarriage (only 12, same as with Americans
– for 36% religion importnat/very important part of their life
– 13% are synagogue members (all denominations), more attend without membership. 32% say religion is personal, 13% do not attend because do not understand what is going on. 8% do not feel welcomed, 11% not interestedJuly 23, 2021 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #1994188
I came from Hungary under communist rule and we kept shabbos and kashrus there having a cheder where we had Torah education. Pesach we took along a pale to a farmer in order to have kosher milk.July 23, 2021 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #1994200
RebE > living in EY, the palace of the King.
That speaker gave his answer that halakhot of speech – lashon hara but not only – would be something Jews find difficult.July 23, 2021 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #1994204
RebE > I came from Hungary under communist rule
This is a good comparison. So, you had one year under Nazis (after Horty) and then what 10 years and Communists? (I am not comparing suffering, of course, just the length of servitude). It seems as long as people remember the previous generation, they can hold on. Did you ever met Soviet Jews from Vilno and Riga who emigrated in the 70s? They had pretty good Jewish background (they were first occupied in 1940, while most other Soviet Jews were under commies from 1918). Those who came to Israel in 1990s had 80 years of destroyed Jewish life. You can’t take the pale to the farmer if you don’t know what kosher means.July 24, 2021 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1994225
Reb Eliezer is 100%correct! The most difficult Mitzav for Jews who live in comfort in the “galus” is going on Aliyah. Hence all this hate and enumeration of the sins of the zionists and everything else negative that they have to say about the state. This is their “cover” for remaining in The US or Europe!
The חטא of the meraglim is alive and well!July 25, 2021 3:41 am at 3:41 am #1994355ParticipantParticipant
1 @rebe how pale?
2 in my experience the biggest impediments to moving to e”y isn’t so much the affluence but other comforts i.e. leaving family, set community, structure etc. and, of course, because Americans feel out of place there.July 25, 2021 8:28 am at 8:28 am #1994383
@eval, I see the comfort level in places like RBS, Jersualem Estates, Mamilla, Rechiva, Efrat and they put the level of gashmeus in chutz to shame.
Golus is a state of being not where you at that moment, if I am a tourist for 7 days do I suddenly change my status? Gedolim like Rav YC Sonnenfeld and Rav Dushinsky internalized they were in golus even while living within site of har habis.July 25, 2021 11:59 am at 11:59 am #1994425
The Meharal in Netzach Yisrael says that if something is out of place, will eventually return to its place. We Jews are out of our place EY, so let us hope that we will return soon to our place.
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