Anti semitism poem

The Klei Yakar says in Parashas Devorim on Penu lochem tzofano, to be hidden in galus and not show off to incite the goyim and create our own anti-semitism. Also, see the Meshech Chachma in Parashas Bechukosai on Veaf gam zos to realize we are in galus and not think that Berlin is Jerusalem.

The Meshech Hachma and Chasam Sofer say, in a small measure anti-semitism is good for us to protect us from assimilation.

but there is a HUGE difference between the golus of Boro Park, Monsey and London and non- golus of Eretz Yisroel.
Oh Really? was it a non golus prior to 1948? by all mean please explain the difference, People like Rabbi YC Sonnenfeld knew they were living in Yerusalam but were in Golus regardless of where you are.

CS. I don’t get it. What does 1948 have to do with anything? Eretz Yisroel is geographically NOT GALUS! The time period may be golus but the PLACE IS NOT! And AVIRA nothing that you said disproves my point. You actually have just given a good defense for the fact that EY is NOT GEOGRAPHICALLY GOLUS no matter what’s happening here! And by the way, why are the chareidim so upset with the current Israeli gov’t? One big reason, no more funds for Yeshivas and child care. What’s the maskunu? That until now, the ZIONIST STATE HAS BEEN FINANCING MOST OF THE TORAH LEARNING IN THIS COUNTRY! You really got me confused there? It seems to me that when Moshiach comes, as far as you are concerned, you’re staying in Lakewood. Is that correct?

Avira, I’m so glad that you mentioned the Ramban. When he made Aliya, he couldn’t even find a minyan of men to daven with. I think there were 2 other Jews in all of Yerushalayim. Do you think the Ramban felt the same way in EY as in Galus? ie: Chul. He probably felt much worse! Since when are our feelings determining factors for kiyum mitzvos. Certainly not by Briskers like yourself. Your GALINU MARTZENU pshat deserves the booby prize! You would make a terrible lawyer! MOST of Am Yisrael was led into the diaspora. So according to your pshat what does GALINU MARTZAYNU mean? And why is it relevant why the state of Israel supports Torah? It’s a fact!

> Meshech Hachma and Chasam Sofer say, in a small measure anti-semitism is good for us to protect us from assimilation.

Rav Schach writes that if there were no Arab hate, then early Zionists would quickly go study at Uiveristies of Beirut and Cairo and assimilated. So, Hashem protected them thru these hate. Side note: this means that r Schach clearly cared about those Kibutznikim.

Listened to R A Leibowitz discussing Bava Kamma agada about R Eliezer Zeeri arrested by Resh Galuta for the hutzpah of wearing black shoes as mourning for Yerushalaim. R Eliezer puzzles him with the question – how much you pay for cutting down the palm tree. Resh G first offers just the cost of the tree. When asked – what about future dates, then he offers tree + future dates. Correct answer is in between and estimated using market value – ask for a price of a whole field with and without the tree, and damage is the difference.

R Leibowitz darshens: Resh Galuta = someone who is comfortable in Galut.

First price of just the tree – discounts the future produce (potential), sees only current sorry state of Yerushalaim and does not appreciate the miracles that grow there (see Avira above)

Second price – tree + dates – assumes as if all the dates are surely going to grow as if they are already here and, thus, can be charged for. This is over-optimism and not realistic.

Real price can be seen in the context of the value within the whole field – appreciate the potential but be realistic to what you have now.

AAQ – Those who disparage Medinat Yisrael but take from it….
Do you feel the same way about those who ‘disparage’ the Nazi’s but still take from Germany?
I am NOT comparing the Zionists to the Nazis, but the moshol is accurate.
Why should i not claim back property that my grandfathers’ murderer stole? It’s MY money, and I deserve it. And taking (part of) what is righfully mine does not mean i forgive him for killing my grandfather.
The zionists indirectly caused the death of thousands of Yidden, primarily during the War (including one famous instance when they prevented money from Rav Wiessmandel being passed on to the Nazis in return for Jewish lives) They knew that Israel will be built on the ashes of the Holocaust, and they needed more ashes….
This is all BESIDES for what they did to the spiritual lives of Ashkenzim and Sefardim alike…..

The paltry allowance they give to Torah Institutions compared to the millions they pour into general education and ‘culture’, comes from the money they we, the Charedim, are generating for the Israeli economy by just living.
The Charedi world brings billions of pure profit into the country. The amount of zedoko that we raise abroad far outweighs ‘exports’ – all the funds are pure profit. Every Yeshiva, Kolel, and Yerushalmi making chasunas, is doing so much for the economy of the Medina.
Yeshivas Mir is a goldmine for Israel.
Belz, Ger, Vishnitz.
Every Simcha, Every Chol Hamoed, Lag b’Omer in Meron.
The Kosel, Kever Rochel etc.
Har Menuchos and Har Hazezim. Even Bet Shemesh.
All the retirees that move to retiremnet homes in Israel.

And in return the Israeli government generously gives 800 NIS stipend to yungerleit. 500 to a bochur. Nothing compared to what they are giving exaggerated amounts to universities who waste a lot of the allowances on trivialities.

The Charedi world costs the economy almost nothing in the way of policing, court systems, prison-complexes etc.
The crime rate is practically zero. No murders, no drugs (almost?), graffiti, drunken driving, gangs, shoplifting, etc. But we still pay taxes.
Even if all the charedim paid was just VAT, we still would not be getting a fraction of what we are paying and what we contribute to the economy.
The export of Seforim and Judacia, is almost entirely from the Charedi sector. Are we getting anything in return? A measly 1380 NIS ($422) child benefits …… to cover the cost of 8 kids!

Enough said. Maybe I’ll elaborate another time.

GotAPoint, I hear your bitterness and I am familiar with all the issue you are raising from R Wissmandel to Sephardim. At some point, worked with my kid on an essay describing how Begin looked differently at Sephardim addressing them as heirs of Rambam, rather than poor cousins. Another example of ideological bias in Zionist development was emphasis on kibutzim pre WW2 v. development of Tel Aviv manufacturing. Sochnut inserted itself between donors and recipients who wanted to support T-A as manufacturing was providing additional jobs and thus a place for immigrants to come, while kibutzim were providing land and otherwise was a bottomless pit. I saw research computing how many would have come pre-war from Europe and did not, sad…

Still, I think your recounting of Haredi contributions is way biased. Again, I understand pretty much where this coming from and is passed along for several generations already. For one, there is no reshus to disregard your obligations just because you think you were cheated somewhere else. See Rav Huna with his spoiled wine who did not want to pay workers who already “helped themselves”, was rebutted by other chachamim and deserved a miracle for teshuvah, either open (vinegar -> wine) or hidden (vinegar price up).

We in America also pay taxes, while murdering less, paying for schools we do not use, and sometimes have to move to a different neighborhood when government policies lead to disaster. Most of us do not see this as a reason to cheat or hate the country. So, I surmise, your bitterness is more due to the fact that these are specifically Jews who are in power and do think that you disagree with. It is, of course, understandable. The closer we are, the more we expect and the more we react to problems. So, you just need to acknowledge that.

Ben and Jerrys maybe pulled from NYS cafeterias or park concessions because the anti BDS laws wont allow it to be sold in state owned places

> Frum kehilla is a good 15% of the population, probably more

way more – just voters of 3 religious parties is 18% + halfs of 3 more parties + more children. Unless, of course, you limit “frum” to a subset of religious Jews for some strange reason.

I think you are guys are making a legitimate point that you do not want to receive from the regime you do not respect and do not want to feel obliged. I am not 100% sure that the whole community lives up to the good standard you are using, but the principles sound reasonable.

Maybe the best way to advocate for your way of life – and get respect from those who do not trust your approach, would be to fully form your own community without relying on Zionists. Purchase a piece of land from PA or Hamas, or maybe even Syrians, Egyptians, or Jordanians – a lot of these areas might be Eretz Isroel – and form your own tax system, roads, defense forces, or hire someone. If this experiment works, then it will be great Kiddush Hashem, and others will learn from it.

AAQ: You can’t differentiate between Russian gentiles and Russian Jews? A large portion, likely a majority, of the Russians admitted into the State of Israel are gentiles.

AAQ – i knew there was more that 15% (especially if you count all the frum who don’t vote…..!) but rounded it down so that someone cynical (like yourself) wouldn’t find some loophole to argue. You managed to argue anyway.
The children are part of the population, but don’t have a say (yet), so that doesn’t count.

AAQ – ”If you don’t want to pay for, say, IDF, then at least you should not use their protection.”

Before the zionists started grating on everybody’s nerves (the British, the Turkish, the UN, the Arab countries) in order to claim Israel, the Yidden were living very peacefully with their Arab neighbours, as other posters have mentioned. The whole Chevron pogrom was a direct result of the Zionists efforts.
If they created the danger, well, they had better provide the protection.
If [xxxxxx kehilla – insert as applicable] in Lakewood would publish provocative front page ads in the NYT that create an anti-Semitic fervor, and the town now needs to hire a team of safety officers, guards, install cameras etc. could you rightfully demand that [xxxxx kehilla] foot the bill?

If I understand the first Rashi correctly, it says that we are only entitled to EY if we keep the Torah as it originally was given to the goyim and was taken away from them because we, the Jews, were more worthy but if we don’t keep the Torah, EY would revert back to them.

AAQ, maybe, living in EY, the palace of the King.

I came from Hungary under communist rule and we kept shabbos and kashrus there having a cheder where we had Torah education. Pesach we took along a pale to a farmer in order to have kosher milk.

RebE > I came from Hungary under communist rule

This is a good comparison. So, you had one year under Nazis (after Horty) and then what 10 years and Communists? (I am not comparing suffering, of course, just the length of servitude). It seems as long as people remember the previous generation, they can hold on. Did you ever met Soviet Jews from Vilno and Riga who emigrated in the 70s? They had pretty good Jewish background (they were first occupied in 1940, while most other Soviet Jews were under commies from 1918). Those who came to Israel in 1990s had 80 years of destroyed Jewish life. You can’t take the pale to the farmer if you don’t know what kosher means.

1 @rebe how pale?
2 in my experience the biggest impediments to moving to e”y isn’t so much the affluence but other comforts i.e. leaving family, set community, structure etc. and, of course, because Americans feel out of place there.

The Meharal in Netzach Yisrael says that if something is out of place, will eventually return to its place. We Jews are out of our place EY, so let us hope that we will return soon to our place.