November 22, 2017 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1409174achdusParticipant
This is how COL decided to spin this. A “Lubavitcher doctor is treating ‘Rabbi Steinman’.
Instead of writing the facts:
Rav Aron Leib Shteinman is in critical condition. Although this is a Chabad website, he is a manhig and leader to hundreds of thousands of Yidden around the globe. He is 103 years old. His name is Aharon Yehuda Leib ben Gittel Feiga. Please Daven for him.
Basically, if a Lubavitcher doctor wasn’t treating him, it would be a non-story.
Chabad is the most closed-minded self-centered cult in the history of Judaism. Nothing else exists to them besides Chabad.
Oh…and they found a photo of Rav Yoel Kahan visiting Rav Shteinman, so now it’s also a story worth publishing.
Sick.November 22, 2017 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #1409186KotlorismParticipant
So low. Nothing new for COL. It’s a NY Post drive-by media. They are not Chabad.November 22, 2017 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #1409189OneBigSketchMember
Moshiach NOW!November 22, 2017 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #1409228Avi KaneParticipant
I don’t understand the problem. The COL is a Chabad news site. Therefore, they are reporting news from a Chabad perspective. Similarly, theyeshivaworld.com publishes stories that interest their readership.
FYI, two of my sons are alumni of HaRav Shteinman’s Yeshivas Gaon Yaakov. May Maran Rosh Hayeshiva, shlita, have a refuah shleimah.November 22, 2017 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #1409355GoldenLechaimParticipant
While maybe having a different headline might be nice, I do agree with Avi Kane. Besides, please take a look at the first comment on the article!:
Rav Steinman is one of the greatest gadolim of this generation. No exaggerations. He tries to do what is right and does not waiver under pressure. The best thing Rav Shach ever did was to handpick Rav Steinman to be his maaleh makom. Refuah shleimah to Rav Steinman and condolences to him on the passing of his daughter. We need more gedolim like him!!
So instead of jumping to bash others, add in ahavas Yisroel Rav Shtienmans zechus!!November 22, 2017 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #1409357isaacbalbinParticipant
Get real and stop throwing stones. If he wasn’t wearing a (silly) Yechi Yarmulke Yeshivah World News would have made no mention of the fact that he was a Lubavitcher.November 22, 2017 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #1409359
First of all buddy, you live in a neighborhood that, unlike Chabad, absolutely dissociates with any outside influence, so who you calling a cult? To the point where your community literally has an ongoing crisis because if parents are not 100% in-line with the “standards” their children have nowhere to go to school. So, from a place where non 100% compliance is considered apostasy, it’s pretty hard to take your cult accusations very seriously.
Second of all, if, and I say if, because you haven’t established any proof, Chabad is isolated from the Yeshivish world, I wonder who’s to blame? Hmmm, perhaps the group that from the inception has called the other heretics (and, *gasp* a cult) despite the lifestyles, adherence to Halacha, limmud ha’torah, and avodas hashem being 99% similar is to blame. Maybe the group that’s most noted leaders have put the other’s in cheirim is to blame. Perhaps the group who’s leader withheld visas and funds intended for the other’s bochurim, virtually sentencing them to death, is to blame. So yes, Chabad is isolated from the yeshivish world (despite the relationship only getting stronger imho), but that is by design of early yeshivish leaders.
Third of all, as others have mentioned, but it bears repeating: COL is a) a garbage site, b) a *Chabad* garbage site, and c) pretty much only read by Lubavitchers, and about Lubavitch. When Yated publishes a profile of a kollel or kiruv rabbi in a city, and doesn’t mention the shluchim that have been there for years longer (and occasionally, depending on the author, insinuating that this is the only frum org in town) does Chabad have a right to get offended? No, Yated is a yeshivish publication for yeshivish people.November 22, 2017 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #1409417
What did you expect? Only when it has something to do with chabad then they post it. They don’t care about other gedoilim outside chabad.
And for the record YWN always posts chabad stories and news from all over and sometimes they even over do it as if they are a chabad site.
Absolutely disgusting how they write out all the details. But to them everyone is bad unless you prove to them that you “like” chabad. No other circle of Yidden does someone hate another yid unless they say something nice about them to prove they aren’t against them!
Soon they will say chabad saved everyone. When litvishe doctors help lubavitchers it’s covered up by chabad so noone will know. But if they ever do something good they won’t stop rubbing it in your face.
What an arrogant bunch! They give everyone mussar about achdus? They have no achdus they should be ashamed of themselves. This is not what the Rebbe taught them they only bring up the Rebbe when it suits them to win an argument.November 22, 2017 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #1409450Little FroggieParticipant
Why is one who’s screen name is ACHDUS driving such a wedge?!?
Don’t we have enough problems???November 22, 2017 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #1409481👑RebYidd23Participant
This reminds me of my ahavas yisrael thread.November 22, 2017 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1409492
Get over it….it was a Lubavitch doctor but who cares??? Stop trying to find reasons to fan the flames of broigas within klal yisroel. Tehillim for R’ Shteiman were said by Chabad shiluchim at their annual kinos this past shabbos. I’m sure if the doctor was Litvish, someone would have somenow concluded that was an indicator they cared more about the affiliation of the doctor rather than providing the best possible medical care (lubavitch).November 22, 2017 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #1409500Geordie613Participant
If you actually read the article, it is fine and in good context.
Achdus, get off your high horse, and start practicing some achdus.November 22, 2017 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #1409515
Achdus?! Perhaps like the commies who all addressed each other as “comrades”. but when it came to a guy that was a card carrying member….oysh. in other words… put down the gun.November 22, 2017 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #1409520
Was “not”November 22, 2017 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1409524oyyoyyoyParticipant
its a repeat offense. he only makes non achdus threads. thank u for us stil being in galusNovember 22, 2017 9:49 pm at 9:49 pm #1409525jewish111Participant
APALLING how “achdus” can malign an enire eida of klal yisrael because of a post he didn’t lke on a website. (That’s not affiliated with the Chabad movement – its a privately run talboid by a couple who live in Crown heights, just look at the screen shot you posted does not say it’s a Chabad site!)
If every individual in Chabad portrays Chabad’s feelings – why don’t you say that the doctor’s words portray the entire Chabad?
“When we refer to Rav Shteinman and rabbonim like him, we cannot simply refer to their bodies. Their age is not relevant for they are in a different world. Their bodies are a means and not an entity as is the case with us and they have “control, something we cannot understand.”
ACHDUS: Are you trying to bring achdus or just looking to use R’ Shteinman’s matzav to flame the fire of machlokes and pirudNovember 23, 2017 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #1410629
Bratzki Poretz, let me respond. There were reasons for the reaction of the Litvish Gedolim. Lubavitch is not 99% like the others. It was founded with very different fundamental hashkovos than what was the mesorah before that time – views dangerously approaching Christian views.
As far as the pidion shvuiim goes. I am not familiar with the details, but you have to know there are Halochic rules about it: Kohen goes before Yisroel, Talmud Chocham before Am Ha’Oretz even if the latter is more me’yuchas.November 23, 2017 11:16 pm at 11:16 pm #1410775
Mdd1.what beliefs do linavitchers have that dangerously approach christianity.after such an accusation I’m sure you can provide clear evidenceNovember 23, 2017 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #1410781
As much as some of the Chabad-haters here may not like it, Dr. Sorkin is obviously doing something right since the Rav’s condition is reported today to be substantially improved although he still is in much sakanah. Yes, the tefillos too are important but never underestimate the power of a Lubavitch physician.November 23, 2017 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1410795
Put down the gun, some of them in our time ended up declaring that the Rebbe is a part of G-d. It didn’t come from nowhere. A couple of stories with regular ( not open minim) Lubavitchers from awhile ago which illustrate my point: a) one Lubavitcher telling another that he must remember that one day he will have to stand in front of the Rebbe and give din ve’cheshbon; b) a Lubavitcher explanation of a certain Chabadnik being able to risk his life for Yiddishkeit: his total mesirus to do the will of the Rebbe.November 23, 2017 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1410796hmlParticipant
As a Chabadnika, as soon as the Tehillim alert went out I stopped what I was doing & said Tehillim. So did thousands of Lubavitchers. “Achdus” (a misnomer if ever there was one!) joins the heavily populated ranks of Chabad haters…. until he is stranded somewhere remote & needs help. THEN he will know who to turn to.
Achdus, you are looking to encourage sinah & I have to say, you are doing a very good job. Do you think Lubavitchers should stop saying Tehillim because our Tefillos are harmful? Please….when you post here or anywhere that someone close to you is in need of Tehillim – specify Lubavitchers need not apply.November 23, 2017 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #1410799
“It was founded with very different fundamental hashkovos than what was the mesorah before that time – views dangerously approaching Christian views.”
No one pays attention to someone who doesn’t know the meaning of the word “Hashkafa”, as seen by the way you spelled “Hashkovos” which would mean lyings down, or perhaps the sefardi tefilah for people who’ve passed away, the “Hashkava” prayer.November 24, 2017 12:30 am at 12:30 am #1410810
For the benefit of the rabbim, please tell us where you studied Christian theology, and where you obtained your deep insight into Chabad Chassidus?
You probably wouldn’t know a Christian if you he came down your chimney laden with gifts…November 24, 2017 12:30 am at 12:30 am #1410813
Seckel HaYashar, I was in a rush and misspelled it.November 24, 2017 12:31 am at 12:31 am #1410819
Mdd1. Your obviously a hater and an am haaretz in basic fundamentals brought in the Tanya .November 24, 2017 12:50 am at 12:50 am #1410833
Sechel HaYashar, I am not going to speak about the details of my biography here, and insulting me won’t help your cause. Sorry, though, for misspelling your screen name.
Put the gun down, please, elaborate on your answer. (Not the insults part.)November 24, 2017 1:22 am at 1:22 am #1410848
Chapter 2 Tanya says that every Jew is an actual part of God on high and that connection is realized through the connection to a tzaadik. The greatest path to connecting to a tzaadik is by full filling his will. As for the din vcheshbon part, even of you did hear it from a lubavitcher, there is nothing wrong with saying to behave correctly because you don’t want to disappoint grandfather when you get there.November 24, 2017 9:41 am at 9:41 am #1410903
Put down the gun (Sechel HaYashar, come too – you wanted to hear about the Christian theology), that statement from the Tanya you have to be extremely careful with. Anybody who takes it totally literally is guilty of minus. Why is Christianity an avodah zorah? Because they believe in the concept of trinity- that G-d and J. and the Holy Spirit are actually three parts of one indivisible G-d.
Also my point was that Lubavitchers associate with their Rebbes attributes and functions that other frum Jews associate with G-d. You don’t give din ve’cheshbon in front of the Rebbe-you give it in front of G-d. It was a jarring statement to make! One risks one’s life because of fealty to G-d – not to do the will of the Rebbe.November 24, 2017 10:09 am at 10:09 am #1410906
“One risks one’s life because of fealty to G-d – not to do the will of the Rebbe.”
So if you had a Gadol who you very much respect, and you believe that what he tells you is what Hashem wants (and if he’s not telling you what Hashem wants, find another Gadol)
and tells you to do something – if you believe it’s Ratzon Hashem, why would you not do it? And depending on what it is, in a very extreme case, would you not be able to fathom giving your life up for your ideals?
I don’t agree with Peleg protestors, but perhaps you can learn from them here (if it’s lishmah).November 24, 2017 10:25 am at 10:25 am #1410942apushatayidParticipant
“never underestimate the power of a Lubavitch physician.”
Actually, this should read, “never underestimate the power of THE ULTIMATE physician”. Anyone can be his shliach.November 24, 2017 11:55 am at 11:55 am #1411025
Sechel HaYashar, I didn’t for a second question that what that Lubavitcher did was right be’etzem. However, the accent must be on doing what HaShem wants , not on dedication to doing the will of the Rebbe or hiskashrus with him. It was a very disturbing change of accents.November 24, 2017 12:18 pm at 12:18 pm #1411039
@mdd1 You’re only strengthening my original point, not weakening it. OP suggested that Lubavitch was a “close-minded, self-centered cult” that “Nothing else exists to them besides Chabad.” I responded that *if* his accusations are true (although I’d argue that the Yeshivish world is a lot more self-centered and, in many ways, a lot more cultish than Chabad) then it was only because of the antagonism of the Yeshivish velt against Chabad.
Your response only confirms my original point. You say Chabad introduced fundamental changes that are dangerously close to Christianity. Aside from the fact that your “proof” is two random stories about random people that you have absolutely zero source for, and certainly have zero source within Chabad chassidus for, fundamentally, Chabad is basically identical to the Yeshiva world. Limud H’atorah, Shabbos, Kashrus, Tefillah, Tznius etc. (you know, the actual fundamentals of Yiddishkeit) are all exactly the same.
Additionally, the two stories you shared are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. I reasoned that from *its inception* Chabad has been isolated by the Yeshivish world, and your defense of that is to share a story that occurred recently? Even if your stories are true (big if), and even if they represent Chabad as a whole (bigger if), and even if they are actually so foreign from traditional chassidus as you claim (biggest if), it speaks nothing of the hatred shown towards the earliest Lubavitchers.
Either way, if you enjoy living with your head in the sand about your own community, to the point where you’re doing extreme backflips to defend what anyone outside of your community would call indefensible then you gotta ask yourself who you calling a cult?November 24, 2017 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm #1411045
Bratzki Poretz, I didn’t call anybody a cult. I just explained the reason for the disapproval expressed by the Misnagdim regarding Chassidism, and particularly Chabad and Breslav.
Also if someone keeps all the mitsvos, but has heretical beliefs, such a person is a heretic. That is not to say the majority of the Lubavitchers are heretics.
Also, you don’t really fulfill your obligation of limud Ha’Torah by learning Tanya and ChiTaS only.November 24, 2017 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #1411053LubavitcherParticipant
Hml agree with everything you said
Put down the gun. Very true that’s what I said in the other convoNovember 24, 2017 1:29 pm at 1:29 pm #1411055
@mdd1 first of all: yes, you would be fulfilling your obligation of Limud Torah by learning Tanya and Chumash (even if nothing else). They are as much Torah as any other Torah. Second, it’s a common misconception in the Litvish world that chassidim (not just Lubavitch, but nowadays it’s specifically charged against Lubavitch) don’t learn gemara.
Yes, Lubavitcher yeshivos have a seder for Chassidus from 7:30 am to 9:00 am and from 8:00 pm to 9:30 pm. The rest of the day is spent gemara b’iyun, gemara b’bakiyus (which they call gemara b’girsa), and halacha. They use the same kovetz meforshim you use, and learn all of the same rishonim and achronim you learn. Believe it or not, they even have roshei yeshiva that are big time talmidei chachamim.
The Yeshiva world has full right to be proud of their tremendous dedication to limud gemara, but the insinuation that Lubavitch doesn’t learn anything but Tanya is transcends pride, and sounds a lot like gayva.
Lastly, again you didn’t explain about the hisnagdus to Lubavitch, you just continued with baseless name-calling. Telling Lubavitchers that gedolim isolated them because they are like christians is not nearly as poignant an argument as you think it is.November 24, 2017 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #1411054GAONParticipant
“Lubavitchers from awhile ago which illustrate my point: a) one Lubavitcher telling another that he must remember that one day he will have to stand in front of the Rebbe and give din ve’cheshbon; b) a Lubavitcher explanation of a certain Chabadnik being able to risk his life for Yiddishkeit: his total mesirus to do the will of the Rebbe.”
FYI – Many Chassidim once-upon-a-time had that very mentality – it is not subject to Chabad.
I once read in a classic…: a chasid (not chabad – and who obviously wasn’t that much of a Yiras Shomayim) said he is afraid to sin – for Hashem will reveal it to the Rebbe !November 24, 2017 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #1411062
In Chabad we learn the same Torah as you. We learn Gemara too. I don’t know who told you that we “only learn Tanya”
Secondly, please tell me, can I learn Chumash and Tanya without saying Birkas HaTorah???November 24, 2017 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1411066
B-P, one must try to learn all of the Torah. I am not familiar with what Lubavitchers learn first hand, but that’s the reputation that they have (unlike other Chassidim). Do Lubavitcher ba’alei batim also learn Gemorah seriously?November 24, 2017 2:05 pm at 2:05 pm #1411068
Sechel HaYashar, you can’t, but see my post addressed to Bratzki Poretz. That obligation applies only to men though.November 24, 2017 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #1411070
@mdd1 Some do, some don’t, but by your standard is it a problem that Litvish ba’alei batim don’t learn Navi or Moreh Nevuchim seriously? Who decided that the only acceptable Torah to learn is gemara? The yeshiva structure and schedule is exactly the same in Lubavitch as the Litvish world, other than there is no serious movement to sit and learn in kollel as a career in Lubavitch.
The stereotype that there is no serious learning or no real talmidei chachamim in lubavitch is just that, a stereotype. Plenty of R”Y and R”M are serious talmidei chachamim (I believe R’ Yoel Kahn was mentioned in this thread, but there are many many others). Many of the bochurim sit and learn torah (mostly gemara, just like you) day and well into the night.
Either way, you might not consider chassidus to be torah, but they do. Much like mussar, it makes them serve Hashem more fervently, and helps them refile their personality, so I’m not sure what the big deal is.November 24, 2017 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #1411086
B-P, as far as “the baseless accusations” go, I believe I have written enough to prove my point.November 24, 2017 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1411088Tzemmy BassmanParticipant
It’s surprising and scary how the Yeshiva world who claims to be followers of the great Chafetz Chaim how low they have fallen!!!!November 24, 2017 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #1411110🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
While I cannot disagree regarding the opening post, it isn’t YWN that is scaring me at this point.November 25, 2017 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #1411112
Your multiple postings prove the point that misnagdim are really Chabad wannabees who are jealous of both their hashkafah and ahavas yisroel. Its a lot easier to post rants about followers of the rebbe being guilty of all sorts of apikorsus than to study the rebbe’s writings and at least understand the underlying hashkafah they follow. Do some take his words a bit more literally than others? Of course, but I think we see much more of that tendency in Litivish circles.November 25, 2017 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #1411146FerdParticipant
THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!
This link is viral on all Chabad social media LOLOL blasting YWN. Meanwhile, they haven’t realized that this is the YWN Coffee Room which is an open forum with hundreds of thousands of posts about anything and everything.
Great stuff!November 25, 2017 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #1411193LubavitcherParticipant
He’s a fellow yid that’s why they posted for tehillim….November 25, 2017 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #1411272
@770 chabad- Really? Then why wasnt Tehillim ever posted on collive when a chabad doctor wasnt involved?
Answer is: chabad only cares when/if they have some involvement in the matter, so they can be “mefarsem” their “greatness”. Not at all because they care for any other Gedoilim outside chabad. And the proof is that whenever there was Tehillim posted on YWN, it wasnt on colive. So dont suddenly act like you always care for Rabbis outside of chabad.November 26, 2017 12:40 am at 12:40 am #1411325chasidParticipant
This has to be the dumbest post ever. COL is run by a couple from a little office in Crown Heights. It has nothing, I repeat nothing to do with anyone in any official capacity within the Crown Heights community or Chabad as an organization.
They answer to no one except their advertisers.
The fact that someone can take the illness of Rabbi Shteinman and turn it into a source of machlokes is shocking and disgusting. If you care so much say a kapitel of tehillim instead of sewing pirud and hatred.November 26, 2017 9:13 am at 9:13 am #1411355
@chasid- thats always everyones excuse that col does not speak the mind of lubavitchers. In fact what they post seems pretty on par with lubavitchers mindsets, and if thats not enough to convince you, the peoples comments on colive prove it.
Dont try to twist this on to the rest of us. It is a known fact that chabad care about noone but themselves unless they have some sort of involvement in the matter. Just like when some developers tried taking down a shul to build a complex which also included a shul, all of chabad jumped up to yell about it and only because some time ago some lubavitcher may have davened there for a shabbos so they claimed it as a lubavitch shul. The shul has not been used for years and no lubavitcher davens there(boro park). They would never care otherwise and never have in the past.
People are upset only because of the fact that suddenly lubavitch make it seem they care about the outside world, when everyone knows its only because a lubavitcher was involved. Funny how the litvish world doesnt go on bragging about every lubavicher they ever assisted.
And dont worry we have been saying Tehillim long before collive published, since WE actually do care and are concerned. WE didnt have to wait for any approval on your side.November 26, 2017 9:57 am at 9:57 am #1411471
What do you think that Rav Shteinman Shlita would say if he knew the he’s at the center of a disgusting and disgraceful thread such as this one? Do you think it’s going to bring him a Refueh Sheleima? Rav Shteinman is known to have respect for Chabad, and we in turn, have always had respect for him. (I’ve even learned his Chiddushim in Ayeles HaShachar in a Lubavitcher Yeshiva. (Hey wait.. They don’t learn Torah in Chabad, just Tanya?!) Stop fanning the flames of Pirud Helevovos and machlokes in the name of a Godol B’yisrael who’s lying sick in hospital!!!
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