Aravot on the Aron Kodesh
- This topic has 12 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 5 months ago by wants to be a WIY.
October 13, 2010 11:05 am at 11:05 am #592614mamashtakahMember
Why are the aravot beaten on the ground during Hoshanot thrown on top of the Aron Kodesh? I’ve asked, and most people say it’s because they were used for something Kadosh, and we do this to ensure they won’t be thrown away.
If this is true, why not throw the lulav on the Aron as well?
Why don’t we just keep the aravot with the lulav, and burn them all together with the chametz before Pesach?October 13, 2010 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #700340cherrybimParticipant
Many rabbonim, including my own, frown on this custom because (m’ikor hadin) of using tashmishei kedushah (aron kodesh)for mundane purposes and for item of lesser kedusha – See Darchei Chayyim Veshalom and SA Orach Chayyim 154.October 13, 2010 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #700341ChossonMember
I once heard a cute story about “Aravot on the Aron Kodesh”. A Chossid was once davening by his Rebbe’s Shul and wanted to see his Rebbe so he went on to the Aron Hakoidesh (Chassidim used to do these things), and his rebbe saw him and gestured that it’s inappropriate, so the chassid promply responded “Ich bin nisht erger vi a tziklapte araveh”. (Trans. “I’m not worse than a beaten Araveh”)October 13, 2010 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #700342
I don’t see it in either place.October 13, 2010 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #700343apushatayidParticipant
The shul I davened in on Hoshana Rabbah (not my regular minyan) announced in the name of the Rav that under no circumstances should Aravos be placed on top of the Aron kodesh. People were surprised because “thats what everyone does”, but I dont think anyone actually asked the Rav, why not.October 13, 2010 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #700344YW Moderator-80Member
this practice bothers me
however where i daven one of the Rabbaim is a choshuv Posek and he never told anyone not to do it.
i didnt ask him about it but i have a feeling that he holds it shouldnt be done but is not assur and he doesnt want to be mavatal a Minhag.October 13, 2010 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #700345telegrokMember
As a general principle, one (we) need to be very careful to not disparge minhagim. Throwing aravos on top of the aron kodesh is a widespread practice, so it should stand to reason that there is a basis for it that has stood the test of time.
My Rosh HaYeshiva was fond of saying that “sevaros are a dime a dozen,” but I’ll conjecture why the hoshanos might be tossed atop the aron kodesh, but not the lulav: once the hoshanos bundle has been beaten, the practice is that no-one else uses it – that’s why many bochurim purchase an extra set for their “Alter-Bubbe” (I know I did when I was a kid). So, once you’ve “spent” the hoshanos in shul, there’s no reason to take it home since there is nothing left to do with it. By contrast, the lulav and esrog can be used throughout the day until Shemini Atzeres, and in fact those who are accustomed to eating an esrog should not do so on Hoshanna Rabbah since it maintains its kedushadiche usefulness throughout the day.October 13, 2010 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #700346YW Moderator-80Member
So, once you’ve “spent” the hoshanos in shul, ….. there is nothing left to do with it.
there is the segulah to take one of the leaves and place it in your wallet as a segulah for parnassahOctober 13, 2010 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #700348WIYMember
“there is the segulah to take one of the leaves and place it in your wallet as a segulah for parnassah”
Never heard of that one but then again there are literally 100’s of segulos for parnassah.
If anything putting “leaves” in a wallet would make the money go quicker no?
corny I know.October 13, 2010 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #700349
In minhogei Maharil it says that you should hide the spent hoshanos until Pesach and throw them into the oven. Reason is that they have a leftover kedusha and shouldn’t be demeaned by using them for any purpose. The Mechaber says that we should be careful not to step on the hoshanos after using them. He also says that they’re muktza all day. Therefore the minhag has become widespread as an answer to all this to throw them on the aron kodesh where they’ll remain safe until Pesach. In the past each shul would bake its own matzos so it was no problem to save the hoshanos on the arom kodesh until Pesach and then use them in the oven, as the Maharil says. The lulav bunch and esrog are not muktza all day because they can still be used. And the minhag with them is to put the lulav on the door to watch over the house and to make the esrog into jam for Tu B’Shvat.October 13, 2010 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #700350
Mod80, source?October 14, 2010 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #700351Trying to be helpfulMember
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I have in my car a laminated Tefilas haderech with a Hashona leaf
which we got at the chasuna of a prominent Rav’s daughter, it refers to the Menoras Hamoer without specific location
Paste ????? ???? ???? ????? into yoour search Engine & you will find someone selling theim
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