Are the Chilonim and Datiim Tziyonim the biggest problem?

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    In recent days YWN has reported on the grave disagreements between R’ Shteinman and R’ Kanievsky, shlita vs R’ Auerbach, and all of the fallout from that, as well as the pashkevilim calling out R Shternbuch of the Eidah Chareidis published by the Asra Kadisha.

    Add to this the decisions of the chassidish velt in Yerushalayim not to back Leon –

    I’m not remotely interested in commenting on who is right and who is wrong – just that

    It seems there is a huge internal power struggle in the chareidi world that perhaps has more to do with its internal dynamics than with anyone else – Leading of course to the questions about the sustainability of the current system and the effect in both directions of the pressures and realities on the ground.

    Is determining authority more important than establishing sustainability right now?

    Bubby E

    Contrary to popular media opinion and punditry that constantly exaggerates situations, there is no threat to the sustainability of our people.


    exactly… i find it interesting how the gedolim could be so split. i guess its shivim panim latorah but im used to the split being bet the torah world and the “jewish” world not within our gedolim themselves.


    Bubby E: There is of course no threat to the sustainability of our people because whatever version we survive in will become the surviving version.


    Off the derekh Jews are always the major problem. We can survive anything the goyim throw against us. At this point, we are three generations past the holocaust, and there are probably more Jews learning Torah than there were before. But if you look the demographic impact of the massive shmad led by the secular Jews of the mid-20th century (the “Reform”, the “Socialists” and yes, the zionists)- the effect on our community is still felt. Frum families that were almost wiped out by the Nazis have recovered and are thriving. But the secular families that were decimated (from a Jewish point of view) by the secular movements have not recovered and are approaching a point where their descendants are no more like to become a baal tseuvah than a random goy is to convert (and of coursem many of their descendants are goyim).


    To Yichusdik: Check out the Gemara. There’s nothing but rabbonim — greater than our gedolim of today — who were disagreeing about everything, and it’s now at the top of the list of Holy literature.

    Also, Berel Wein’s books about other disagreements and power struggles between people who were avidly Yireh Shomayim. It’s true that the Chillonim and Zionists aren’t the only problem, and that we have severe problems within the Torah world. But if we keep things in perspective and each of us tries to be the best that we can be, our grandchildren will be around to tell about it, and they’ll be frum too.


    its galus


    You cannot blame this lack of chareidi achdus on outside forces, because they are not persecuting us- rather, we are quite religiously free, growing in size, and politically independent. We have strength in numbers and strength in Torah. Why don’t we use those kochos and opportunities from Hashem l’shem shomayim?


    “bet[ween] the torah world and the “jewish” world”

    Huh? So what’s the Torah world as opposed to the Jewish world? After all, just like hat=wizard and wizard=hat, Jews=Torah and Torah=Jews, no?

    And the quotes around Jewish are necessary why?…..

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