Are you allowed to give Tzeddakah/charity to Non-Jews

Non Jewish veterans are frequently homeless. They fought for the freedom you take advantage of in your country. As such, hakaras hatov in the form of money to people who did you such a favor is tzeddaka. However, if the non Jew burns the flag of that country in disrespect for the lives lost, it is not hakaras hatov and is not tzeddaka.

Malvin: On what basis do you think it might be asur to provide tzedakah to a non-Jew?? Many significant charities benefit both Yidden and goyim and there is no way you can earmark your donation for actions or programs that only benefit Yidden. Obviously, there are charities we can prioritize that benefit yidden but no reason not to leave a small portion of our charitable giving for worthy mosdos that help all.

Commonsaychel:
What was your purpose in posting such a post. It comes across as pointing fingers, as it seems you feel someone is trolling. Such expressions tend to cause divisions. You are free to express what you wish to say, but is the goal to unify, or divide? I don’t need your answer. You need to ask yourself what your intent was in that post.

I’ve supported non-Jewish charities plenty of times. I’ve donated to cancer research organizations, I’ve donated to Wounded Warrior (helps soldiers who lost limbs fighting for our country), and also to March of Dimes (helps with babies born prematurely).
At my job, there are times when there are collections, usually when someone loses a relative. In those cases, I have to see what the charity is that they’re collecting for. Usually it’s just for a floral arrangement, and I have no problem contributing towards those. However, sometimes we get a message saying, “In lieu of flowers, the family is requesting donations be made towards <Charity X>.” I once had an Indian coworker who lost his mother. They requested that donations be made to his Hindu church. Needless to say, I did NOT contribute to that – Hinduism is actual Avodah Zarah, worse than Christianity! (Some hold Christianity is NOT A”Z, and some say it’s a safek. Christians claim to believe in the same Hashem that we do, although they don’t believe in the One-ness of Hashem. We are machmir on it and treat it as A”Z. Hinduism believes in multiple gods, and not the same God we believe in.)

Sam, not all of them consider him a god. The Unitarians, for example, think that he was at most a prophet. Some consider him to have been merely a moral exemplar. Most today, other than the clergy, do not really think about these things. They simply are following family traditions. Some only go to church for social or business reasons. In any case, you also have to check out Jews (and those who claim to be Jews). They may be using it for non-tzedaka purposes. BTW, a certain tzedaka sent out an appeal with a photoshopped picture of Rav Kanievsky and an open book. Someone I know looked closely and saw that it was a New Testament.

Common Saychel: I am much more tolerant of trolls if they are well done with a bit of humor and sarcasm. Unfortunately, some are simply dumb and childish (aka “Should women be allowed to leave the house w/o their husband’s permission?)

Avira: There are deos yechidim that for goyim shituf is not assur,

I don’t think this is yehidim, I recall it goes back to tosfos, am I wrong?

> As for veterans vis a vis hakaras hatov; we don’t find a source in chazal

A related sugya on respect of zekinim in Kidushin considers whether we really respect Tal,iei Hahamim of any age, or really any old people. My rav concludes that Gemora is purposefully vague on the conclusion and both should be respected, and an elderly Aramean surely had some experiences in his life, and veteran status surely increases a chance that a person did something worthy in his life.

Generally, when you look at Gemoras re:nichrim, we probably need to look at pre-censored sources to see whether we are talking A’Z, minim, etc. Even when talking about christians, it may matter whether they are Jewish/minim, and what the current relationship with them is.

Also, none of the religious concerns would apply to free-thinkers and Muslims

Avira, Rav Moshe invoked it regarding voting. I believe that he also allowed honoring a non-Jew who helped Jews at a dinner. Chazal say that someone who is not grateful is less than a dog.

The Shulchan Aaruch says that we are provide poor non-Jews with charitable donations.

Do the moderators consider the Torah as explained by HaRav Avigdor Miller zt’l to be unacceptable?

No

Avira, you are guilty of slander. How does Israel not allow people to practice Judaism. What about the violations of freedom of religion in America by the toeva crowd, not to mention the marginalization of those who, unlike you, support Israel (which is also part of Judaism)?
BTW, the Chesed l’Avraham says that when someone is inappropriate for Eretz Yisrael he must be ejected. However, being that he is still a Jew the land has pity on him and makes him feel that it is to blame.

Avi; the toeva people are just as if not more militant in israel than they are in America, so that’s just flat wrong. America enshrines a religious tolerance that almost no other country has, for better or for worse.

How does israel not let us keep the torah?

– Kidnappings of thousands of yemeni children from religious families.
– almost successful in mandating autopsies
– forcing farmers to violate shmitah and kilayim(this was in the past and the frum ignored their decrees, like making grapefruit which the chazon ish assered)
– forced military service in an army dedicated to making Hebrew Nationals (you can look up ben gurions quote as to the purpose of the army being a “melting pot”( his exact words)
– forced gius banos, a fate that was deemed yehereg velo yaavor
– putting us in questionable situations such as having to decide whether or not it’s allowed to benefit from the mechalelei shabbos at the electric plants
– proliferation of treif food; most food in eretz yisroel is treif because of massive negligence in terumos and maasros
– when the swedish (Belgian?) Government wanted to and eventually did ban shechitah, their excuse was that the “leader of the Jews” netanyahu (the oichel nevelos mechalel shabbos and boel nidos that he is) ate non-kosher meat, so it must not be very important to you Jewish people.
– lack of equality in the job market; charedim are turned down for jobs because of the hatred taught by the government and the Zionists; discrimination is widespread across every sector, and is not cared about….if this were happening to toeva people, they definitely would win law suits for their “rights”
– proliferation of anti torah culture right in our midst; they put their nevala in our faces, and get the uneducated mizrachim to watch movies and be part of their filthy culture
– they force rebbeim to take mandatory government courses which include zionist apikorsus
– they keep is in constant worry over the arab enemies they made for themselves (see rabbi j.b. soloveitchik’s chamesh drashos where he admits this, though many in the religious zionist community harp on the chevron massacre, it is clear as day that it was incited by zionist activity and rhetoric rhat had been festering for decades prior)

Need some more? I’ve got PLENTY

Also, it’s not unequivocally true that the us military serves no purpose to defend us and preserve our freedom today just because WWII is over. The entire world economy depends on US might. The US almost primarily patrols the world’s shipping routes. There are many other important things the military does aside from overseas skirmishes.

>> Do the moderators consider the Torah as explained by HaRav Avigdor Miller zt’l to be unacceptable?

> No

al pi Yinglish dikduk, this answer means that the nistar Torah is not unacceptable, i.e. it is acceptable. given that the torah is not niglah in the post, the moderator probably meant the opposite.

PS This is not a disrespect to the hard-working mods, but if you become part of the discussion, you are a fair game 🙂 Just showing respect to the non-Jewish language.

Yaakov chastised the shepherds at the well who did not trust each other and directed them to work honestly. He was on the way from the yeshiva to shiduchim, why didn’t learn Mishna and not waste time on the goyishe problems?

A midrash also says that Yaakov “established markets”, that is create right market conditions for economy to work.

@AAQ,
“because it is off-topic and he mentioned his position before. Combining multiple threads, I have an impression of Avira’s deah (ad presumably his teachers) is being rich on detail, whether halachik or factual, but somehow veering away from important central issues. ”

TALKING ABOUT THE KETTLE CALLING BLACK, WOW WOW WOW !!!!

מפרנסים עניי נכרים עם עניי ישראל is not an obligation, it is permission. The gemara is telling the gabaim of a tzedakah fund, to which Jewish donors have given on the understanding that their money will go to עניי ישראל and they will therefore get the reward for tzedaka, that if it happens, while they are distributing the money to עניי ישראל that עניי נכרים show up and get in line, they are permitted to give to them too, even though whoever donated that money did not fulfill the mitzvah and will not get the reward. And the reason this is allowed is darchei sholom. The reason it’s not stealing is that the donors know this in advance, and give on the understanding that their money may go for that purpose.

The gemara further says that if a nochri wishes to donate to the tzedaka fund, and it’s not possible to refuse the donation, then it should be given to עניי נכרים so that the donor will not get a mitzvah, unless the donor specifically stipulated that it should go only to עניי ישראל.

Gadolha, the issue here is the motivation. Giving to goyim is not because of altruism or lishma, it’s because of the gemara quoted at the beginning of this thread, and nothing more. Chazal say that we do it exclusively because of darchei sholom. There is no greater example of darchei sholom than a wealthy yid who would normally give only to yidden, but that would cause a lack of sholom with goyim, so he gives to goyim as well. Word for word what the gemara says.

The problem is when we make it into a lishma. It’s the same as the issur of hashavas aveida. It is unequivocally assur to return a goys aveidah. The only time one must do so is to avoid chilul hashem, and one is allowed to do so – although not required – to create a kidush hashem. People who go around saying to treat goyim the same as yidden are violating the Torah in a profound way. Rashi explains that when one returns an aveidah to a goy, he is “mareh beatzmo” he shows about himself that he’s not concerned with doing mitzvos for hashem, because if he were he would only do it when it is a mitzvah. Since he’s doing it for anyone, it’s saying that he does not care about doing mitzvos for hashem.

That’s when Jewish people knew this basic truth, so giving to goyim used to be a clear indication that such a person was not interested in torah. Nowadays we’re so taken by pluralism and false equality that we think we are all the same and are all afforded the same privileges. To the point that if someone thinks of discerning yidden from goyim, he is the one who is thought to have violated a false “torah” of equality and fairness. Genevas daas, hashavas aveidah, taos akum, all are “unthinkable”, a travesty to Torah and hashem because it doesn’t comport with modern ideology.

Re; israel and harping – whatever the status of Israeli frei people are, it doesn’t change the fact that Israel past and present has given a hard time to the torah world. They have, whether in knowing evil intent or not, presented us with roadblocks, bias and anti torah culture. And yes, they have become the lightning rod of anti semitism.

You can think whatever you want, but i suggest reading some history books about how Jews got along with Arabs before Zionism. The Grand mufti of Jerusalem, once a friend to Jewish people, pushed hitler over the edge to carry out the final solution. A million or so sefardi jews were expelled from their homes just after the accursed state was declared.

If the truth and following the Torah makes the frei hate us, then so be it – that’s nothing new. The am haaratzim always hated the bnei torah; it’s all over chazal. I’m not going to change my service if hashem, and my fulfillment of halo misanecha hashem esneh uvmiskomemecha eskoteit. I will not mix in with them, dress like them, talk like them, fight in their znus army or speak their filthy language when not necessary.

Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Kings and Wars 10:12
“And even for non-Jews – our sages commanded us to visit the sick and to bury their dead with the dead of the Jews and to give sustenance to their needy among the needy of the Jews – because of promoting peaceful ways. Behold there is the verse – “Hashem is good with all and he is merciful upon all of his works” (Tehilim / Psalms 145, 9) and it is said “And its ways are ways of pleasantness and all its paths are peace.” (Mishle – Proverbs 3, 17)”

Shulchan Arukh, Yoreh De’ah 151:12
“It is permitted to support their [non-Jewish] poor, and visit their sick, and bury their dead, and eulogise and comfort their mourners, because of the ways of peace.”

Shevet MiYehuda 3:70
“Lately it has become customary, to our great detriment, amongst our teachers to state that there is no real obligation towards bettering the life of non-Jews…and there is no need to encourage the community to support non-Jews with tzedakah and kindness, for any such acts are only done for the sake of darchei shalom [ways of peace] and thus have no real source in the Torah law. Therefore we must define the true concept of darchei shalom. It is not just a means to keep Judaism safe from non-Jewish hatred, but flows from the core ethical teachings of the Torah.”

Boruch – the achronim completely ignore that meiri; it’s a daas yochid; I didn’t mention it because we don’t pasken like him.

I never said giving tzedaka to goyim is a bedieved, i said that it’s an ends to a means and not lishma or altruism.

Avi – the lives of the Jews in arab countries were still exponentially better than their ashkenazi counterparts. Blood libels were everywhere in Europe, but only happened in the 1500s in the ottoman empire – “suleiman the magnificent” issued a firma, a legal ban on blood libels in that time, as did another muslim ruler in the mid 1800s at the behest of moses montefiore. Then they became very popular…. Guess when? In the 20th century. Thank you Zionism.

Being a jew in galus was and is no picnic, but jews flourished in the arab lands, with free access to professions, markets, freedom of movement, yeshivos, and they had shuls.. I don’t know the details of your claims, but they had beautiful shuls, and their example is copied by sefardi jews in America, sometimes to a fault.

If not for zionism, we could have easily immigrated to Arab lands, had the zionists not stoked a fiery hatred of us prior. We didn’t need their help. If not for zionism, said the chazon ish, jews would jave davened and done teshuva and been saved from the holocaust like the yerushalmis who prevented rommel from attacking eretz yisroel with their teshuva and fasting. Instead they relied on kochi veotzem yadi and we know what happened afterwards.

The state is not just “imperfect” it is rotten at the core, the mamzer of the union between nationalism and jewish identitarianism

The rambam.you quoted is, as not surprising…wrenched out of context. He does not say “non jew”, he says akum, which is in contrast to the lines above your quote where he says that it appears to him that a ger toshav receives chessed like a Jew. Then he says that even an idol worshipper receives tzedaka, visiting their sick and burying their dead, because of darchei sholom. See Taz on the shulchan aruch seif that you quoted that explains that there is no connection at all between the giving lf tzedaka to goyim and to Jews, by yidden it’s a mitzvah and by goyim it’s just darchei sholom.

The Gemara says מפרנסים עניי עכו”ם עם עניי ישראל – “We are obligated to support the gentile poor together with the Jewish poor” (Gittin 61a). That means because of darkei shalom, in order to keep peace, we give some charity to the goyim as well. In order to create a good impression, when you’re giving money to a Jewish poor man, and at the same time a gentile comes by for charity, you should be careful to give him something as well. It doesn’t mean that you have to give him the same. But for the sake of shalom, you give him something.

It says עם עניי ישראל – “With the Jewish poor.” Only when they come together. When this נכרי, this gentile, comes by himself, then you’re not obligated to give him anything. He could just think that you’re a tightwad; but not that you’re impartial to Jews. However, you should always be careful, because if it will create animosity, you should make sure to give him something. You’ll have to use your own judgement.

Avira, a very good point on different motivation for tzedoka and influence of pluralistic society. Just don’t throw the baby with the bathwater… Derech shalom and Kiddush Hashem are not something to disregard v “real mitzvah”

AAQ, how many times have you ridden the NYC subway?