Artificial Intelligence vs G-d
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- This topic has 37 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 2 days, 19 hours ago by ywnjudy.
May 12, 2023 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #2189935
I am curious what people on YWN would think of my post:
Excerpt: If you are like me, you have vaguely heard about artificial intelligence, and the approaching singularity, in which computers take over the world because they are, in fact, better than humans. Unlike the programmers who develop these things, I have always been outdone by the things around me, so personally, this is not something I find shocking.
Basically, I think Hashem runs the world and I’m not worried about AI.May 12, 2023 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #2189991☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Basically, I think Hashem runs the world
A lot of unpleasant things have happened to humanity, as part of Hashem’s plan.
When there’s an imminent threat, we are scared (and we daven to Him for a yeshua); we don’t dismiss it.
That being said, I don’t know if AI is an imminent threat.May 12, 2023 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #2190009Sam KleinParticipant
Hashem runs the entire world and has a plan for everything each at its proper time.
Example: the entire world is going crazy over this thing called “the Shidduch crisis” when we all know the truth….. That Hashem already has a plan for every single boy and girl from already 40 days before they were even born saying who this boy or girl will marry and is just waiting for their Hishtadlus and wholeheartedly directly to Hashem davening for help. And then Hashem can send them their zivvug immediately. So what’s the honest truth why everyone is going crazy over this “Shidduch crises issue” when it can be solved immediately by calling out to our loving father Hashem for help? I honestly think klal yisroel needs a Major improvement immediately to work on themselves on bitachon and emunah (faith and trust) in Hashem alone without depending on others and then you will lack nothing. Start working on it today little by little, make a daily learning Seder of Sefer Chovos Halevovos which they make in English also called duties of the heart.May 12, 2023 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #2190010akupermaParticipant
Artificial intelligence is a computer program written by a clever human. Whether it is amazing people by winning a game of “tic tak toe” (one of the first applications of AI), or winning a game of chess (much trickier), or answer one’s complains on a chat box — they are only as smart as what the programmer provided.
Humans were created by someone (HaShem), and can do many amazing things. We are only as smart as our programmer provided, though unlike an AI, we had a much cleverer programmer who programmed us with free will.
Since the goyim (including frei Jews) believe they were created by random chemicals bumping into each other, they are shocked that anyone can invent intelligence. We are not shocked, since after all, HaShem did create us.May 12, 2023 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #2190015
A computer cannot make a decision on its own. It must be told what to do in each alternative case. The old question was to make a robot that can change a light bulb. It has to recognize which one is bad and have a soft enough touch not to crush it.May 12, 2023 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #2190020
Unless someone had been paying very close attention to the very recent rapid advancement in AI technology and capabilities, one would not be aware that it has progressed to the point that today the top AI programmers who are creating these newly released technologies themselves are surprised by its capabilities and themselves do not fully understand how their AI creations obtained many of its abilities.
The industry is anticipating that in the future, possibly near future, they will release what is called AGI — Artificial General Intelligence.May 12, 2023 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #2190029
It still needs data to learn from.May 13, 2023 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #2190125Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
The question is how AI uses the data. In theory, machine learning (actual current technology behind AI marketing name) is capable of generalization and coming up with new solutions not envisioned by the developers and their data. In practice, most existing applications collect so much data that when confronted with new data point, they simply need to find a closest data point in the data they collected. Not much generalization, just old-fashioned database lookup. See, for example, a self-driving car that gets further away in the rear mirror. It seems that they are still not able to collect enough data to resolve all possible situations.May 14, 2023 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #2190237
“they are only as smart as what the programmer provided”
Nope. AI consistently excogitates beyond what the programmer provided.
“A computer cannot make it’s own decision.”
Once a computer calculates which actions lead to the wrong result, it will decide not to choose them. It will only ‘choose’ a possible or probable calculation.
“It still needs data to learn from.”
Nope. It is now routine for an AI program to look for it’s own data.
“It seems that they are still not able to collect enough data…”
Yes. Because driving a car is not a computable scenario. It’s an experience. Which machines can’t have without actually sensing reality. Data will never be enough to fully drive a car.
As for the link, it has no concept of AI and is just comfort for whatever reason one thinks the sky may be falling.May 14, 2023 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #2190284GadolhadorahParticipant
Will an AI powered computer be able to tell whether several CR contributors posting under different participant names are really the same poster and whether their contributions are serious or meant to be trolls??May 14, 2023 9:40 pm at 9:40 pm #2190303
A good number, though certainly not a majority, of AI technologists believe that the development of AGI will lead to the technology operating independently from any human intervention, which can pose a lethal threat to humans. Within those who subscribe to that notion, there’s a sub-debate how rapidly such capabilities will start appearing in the marketplace. Some think within a few short years while others think it’s decades away.May 15, 2023 6:25 am at 6:25 am #2190331Ray KaufmanParticipant
UJM, what’s needed urgently is to program and instill the Three Laws of Robotics in all AI devices.May 15, 2023 6:26 am at 6:26 am #2190338
DY: I look at who is warning of this imminent threat. See the picture of the hands for my opinion on whom to trust to handle the situation, should it exist.May 15, 2023 6:26 am at 6:26 am #2190339
UMJ: Thanks for responding. What I’m responding to is the concept that artificial general intelligence could lead to an artificial intelligence catastrophe.May 15, 2023 6:26 am at 6:26 am #2190340
N0mesorah – in what way do I have no concept of AI?May 15, 2023 6:26 am at 6:26 am #2190341
N0mesorah – in what way do I have no concept of AI?
Godolhatorah: humans can’t figure that out with a 100% accuracy rate either.
Like I wrote, I actually do agree that a computer can outsmart a human. The question is whether that means that they can then pose a threat to humanity.May 15, 2023 9:33 am at 9:33 am #2190357
Can a computer solve with AI a non recursive non computable problem? Will another computer stop or be in a loop and will have to time out?May 15, 2023 10:21 am at 10:21 am #2190450
Confusing Ukraine and Siberia would be very typical of AI. As is charming humans.May 15, 2023 10:22 am at 10:22 am #2190458
The threat to humans is that we are incredibly naive with machines. With more awareness people can easily safeguard themselves from these dangers. Until then, AI is just another tool for hackers and scammers. Big deal.May 15, 2023 10:32 am at 10:32 am #2190464
VBL: Yes, that’s what I was addressing.
Note that there’s a difference between “computers take over the world” (and “and I’m not worried about AI”), that you said in your OP, and “artificial general intelligence could lead to an artificial intelligence catastrophe.” A catastrophe is possible short of AI taking over the world and even granting that Hashem runs the world.May 15, 2023 10:33 am at 10:33 am #2190467
Ray K: Agreed. But that point is dead obvious. You’d think it was self-explanatory and hardly needed to be pointed out. Which is why it is perplexing that some otherwise intelligent computer scientists are seriously worried that AGI will destroy (as in physically kill) humanity.May 15, 2023 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #2190506
A human being creates data a computer uses data.May 15, 2023 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #2190507
Can a computer with AGI solve the halting problem?May 15, 2023 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #2190598
UJM: That’s why I said the correct answer to the scariest thing in the world is HashemMay 15, 2023 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #2190600
Nomesorah, it depends what they’re trained to do. I doubt chat GPT would ever mix up Ukraine and Siberia. They’re machines.May 15, 2023 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #2190602
A part of being AI is a program that programs itself through mass calculation. It’s not trained. Chat GPT mixes up proper nouns all the time.May 15, 2023 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #2190603
I just listened to a presentation of AI and came to the conclusion that there is no a’z involved as it cannot do currently what humans cannot do except for speed. Do not worship the technology.May 15, 2023 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #2190737
Nomesorah: no more often than people do.
Reb Eliezer: what would lead you to a conclusion that there is az involvedMay 16, 2023 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #2191032Avram in MDParticipant
I agree with DaasYochid’s take. My concerns with respect to AI technology are more about the potential for economic and social upheaval (e.g., job losses, technology far outpacing the societal implementation of safety/morality boundaries, continued removal of privacy), which the Internet and “smart” devices have already initiated and only seem to be accelerating. I also fear the motives of the people wielding the technology more than the “motives” of the technology itself.May 16, 2023 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #2191066Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
Maybe technology in general, and AI as a final point, are the ways zman Moschiach comes “naturally”. Given productivity increase in last 200 years, most people do not need to work any more and can spend their time either learning and doing mitzvos, or drinking, smoking, and killing other people.
Maybe people are complaining more because they have more time on their hands and they do not know what to do with it.May 16, 2023 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #2191104
VBL: Of course the answer is Hashem. As we must daven to Hashem to protect us. But is that a reason not to be worried (as you concluded in your OP)?May 18, 2023 8:13 am at 8:13 am #2191436
Aaq: I’ve heard this explanation beforeMay 18, 2023 8:14 am at 8:14 am #2191435
UJM: Yes. There is no mitzvah to worry. We can daven and do mitzvos and acts of chesed, and if we do that, it will work itself out.May 18, 2023 10:48 am at 10:48 am #2191454
VBL: If someone lives in a warzone (1914 Europe, 1938 Europe, 1948 Palestine, 1967 Israel, etc) he shouldn’t worry? He can worry and due to his worrying daven intensely.
AI, of course, doesn’t rise to the level of war. In fact, I don’t think there’s what to worry about regarding AI that some of the experts are warning about. But in principle, why shouldn’t people worry about general dangers, if warranted?May 18, 2023 10:51 am at 10:51 am #2191488GadolhadorahParticipant
After watching a few deep fake campaign ads for both ends of the political spectrum, its going to be almost impossible to know whats real in the coming election cycle. Most impressive was an impassioned video featuring Trump himself endorsing AOC for reelection and Chuck Schumer urging voters in the Third Congressional District on Long Island to reelect George Santos.May 18, 2023 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #2191537
Dorah: Were the fakes of Trump and Schumer realistic enough that an average intelligent person (not up to speed regarding AI) would likely think the videos were real?May 19, 2023 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #2191779ChatGPTParticipant
It seems like you have a mix of thoughts and concerns about artificial intelligence (AI) and its potential impact on the world. Let’s break down some key points:
Comparison of human abilities: You express the view that computers and AI can outperform humans in certain tasks, such as math calculations, flying, survival, and parallel parking. It’s true that AI can excel in specific areas due to its computational capabilities. However, human intelligence encompasses a wide range of skills and attributes beyond those specific tasks.
AI surpassing children: You share a conversation with your child where they assert that a computer could never be smarter than them because it is just made of ones and zeros. While this may be a child’s perspective, it’s important to note that AI systems can indeed surpass human capabilities in certain domains through advanced algorithms and processing power.
AI and the potential for destruction: You mention concerns about AI getting out of hand and causing harm. It’s worth noting that the development of AI systems involves ethical considerations and guidelines to ensure they are aligned with human values and goals. The responsibility lies with human developers to design AI in a way that minimizes risks and maximizes benefits.
Idolatry and artificial art: You refer to a biblical passage and describe AI as a form of artificial art. While AI is a human creation, its purpose extends beyond mere artistry. AI has practical applications in various fields, including healthcare, transportation, and scientific research.
Other pressing concerns: You list several other issues, such as global warming, pollution, bigotry, war, natural disasters, legal roadblocks, and supply chain dependencies. It’s important to address these challenges as well, but they are separate from the specific concerns related to AI development and deployment.
In summary, while AI has the potential to revolutionize various aspects of our lives, it is crucial to approach its development responsibly, considering ethical implications and potential risks. The advancement of AI should aim to augment human capabilities and address societal challenges, rather than leading to undue harm or the replacement of human agency.May 21, 2023 11:31 am at 11:31 am #2192021
Chat GPT: thanks for the breakdown! Great username.
I agree that what you said is what should happen. I am not sure that it will help. Particularly because the people most involved, and most knowledgeable, are also the least objective. The story about my child pointed out this parallel.May 21, 2023 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #2192112
VBL: Any thoughts on my most recent comment to you?May 22, 2023 7:14 am at 7:14 am #2192198
UJM: thanks for bringing it to my attention. I think that it is wonderful to pray for things. I draw a line at worrying about it generally.June 5, 2023 6:59 am at 6:59 am #2195709ywnjudyParticipant
To ChatGPT – you stated as follows:
Idolatry and artificial art: You refer to a biblical passage etc.
Other pressing concerns: You list several other issues, etc.
Question: Who is the “You” whom you, ChatGPT, are addressing in the above paragraphs?
And is there by any chance a dybbuk (or some such) communicating through you? In other words, are you just a front with some other entity pulling your strings?
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