asking mechila of kids

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  • #599791
    mommamia22
    Participant

    OK. I know this sounds like a really strange question, but does a parent have to ask their child for mechila (for yelling or potching once in a while)?

    #815018
    amused
    Participant

    A child under bar/bas mitzvah cannot forgive those who wronged him until his bar mitzvah.

    #815019
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Only if the parent did something wrong.

    So if you think you ever were actually angry instead of faking it, then you probably should.

    #815020
    sam4321
    Participant

    Sefer Hachinuch 338, I think a child cant be mochel till he is bar or bat mitzvad.

    #815021
    mommamia22
    Participant

    please tell me you faked it every time your kids acted out. You are a tzaddik then.

    #815022
    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    I think it’s a great chinuch for kids when the parents apologize.

    It teaches kids

    -to apologize themselves

    -that chinuch is not a matter of “do as I say, not as I do”

    -that people can make mistakes and make amends

    -they can accept themselves and others, even if they are not perfect

    -to self-reflect upon their OWN behaviors

    #815023
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Who said I don’t ask my kids mechila?

    #815024
    aries2756
    Participant

    I absolutely agree with AYC. I couldn’t have said it better.

    #815025
    Sam2
    Participant

    Sam4: Is that specifically by this case? I know in general we say “Ketanim Lav B’nei Mechila”, but that could be in regards to giving up a claim or entitlement, not to the literal form of Mechila.

    #815026
    yid4life
    Member

    AYC gave great reasoning. I agree with him/her…

    I’m trying to think if one of my parents would apologize to me what I would think of it-

    It definitely would make me respect them more for admitting if they did something wrong and it would teach me a great lesson that adults too make mistakes and ask for mechila even if it is to someone younger than them or of less stature- so I def think it is a good idea to ask them.. not so sure halachically if it’ll really count or if you need to, but it shows great parenting IMHO. But obviously don’t go overboard.. Maybe one or two things or in general something..

    #815027
    mommamia22
    Participant

    I was once told by someone reputable not to apologize directly to a younger child, but rather to say what I would do differently next time.

    Tonight, one of my kids began spitting popcorn kernels on the floor. I told him multiple times to stop, and then yelled. uch.

    Later, I decided that when I am angry, rather than raise my voice, I will try to lower it to a whisper and “yell” in my whisper voice what makes me mad. I told my son what I decided to do (rather than apologize). He loved the idea, and told me he loves me 🙂

    So, now I have to put it into practice. Hopefully, I’ll remember when the moment arises. Let’s hope this counts as “asking mechila”.

    What do you think?

    #815028
    mommamia22
    Participant

    popa

    sorry if I offended you.

    It sounded from your post that you were saying if the possibility arose where one did not pretend to be angry, he must apologize. It just seemed so far fetched to me. No one I know is at the stage of faking it. Discussing that as an idea sounded like you might be at that stage, which is why I said you must be a tzaddik. I’m not even near that, so I wouldn’t even think of it.

    Sorry again.

    #815029
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I agree that we are only judged according to what we are capable of, and getting angry when your kids make you mad, is really not the worst thing I’ve heard of.

    At the same time, I would think you need to ask mechila, even if G-d really isn’t going to count it against you.

    For example, imagine you tell lashon hara about someone and ruin their marriage. Imagine it was in a way that it was assur, but it was so hard that there really can’t be a complaint against you (like maybe you were so mad about something and it was in a fit of rage that wasn’t your fault). I still think you better apologize.

    So again. It is hard to not get mad at your kids, and it is probably not very high on your aveira list. But if you hurt someone, you should apologize.

    #815030
    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    m22

    You did great IMHO.

    In addition, you may also want to consider calmly passing your child the broom and dustpan to collect all those spit-out popcorn kernels.

    #815031
    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    ??? is compared to ???? ??? and should be avoided as much as humanly possible

    “in a fit of rage that wasn’t your fault”

    Not sure what this means.

    Raging is ALWAYS one’s fault, no matter the source (it’s a matter of self-control)

    #815032
    rosesharon
    Member

    As someone who has parents who have come very close loosing myself and my sibling through their actions, both growing up and as married people, learning to evaluate your (re)actions as well as what m22 said that they did will avoid alot of heart-ache and pain on both sides. Your children will remember the lessons which you have taught through your anger and your personal pain.

    #815033
    mommamia22
    Participant

    Rosesharon

    I don’t understand what you wrote. My children will remember the lessons I taught through my anger? Do you mean from trying to rectify my behavior following being angry and the behaviors I choose to replace them with?

    Am Yisrael

    How do you get to the point of not getting angry? I don’t understand this. I feel like we were created a certain way, and then given the mitzvah not to be that way (not to sound apikorsodik).

    #815034
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    How do you get to the point of not getting angry? I don’t understand this. I feel like we were created a certain way, and then given the mitzvah not to be that way (not to sound apikorsodik).

    Yes, and the avoda of life is improving ourselves and fixing our middos. It is a slow process, and a lifelong work.

    #815035
    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    m22

    Firstly, let me reiterate that I think you did a great thing how you handled your situation. You definitely gave your child a great chinuch by discussing what you’d like to do differently.

    Secondly, I think it’s a good chinuch to let your child learn a behavior’s consequences. Give him calmly the broom and dustpan to clean up the mess.

    -Everyone has midos which need improvement. This is a major goal to accomplish in this world. Never accept the level where you are, always aim higher.

    -You may find it helpful to read R Zelig Pliskin’s book Anger, the Inner Teacher.

    -Know what your triggers are that make you more angry (lack of sleep, poor nutrition, a challenge to your ego, lack of support, unresolved issues, not enough alone time, etc.)

    -Have a plan in place for when you begin to feel angry (deep breathing, time out, exercise, sense of humor, get support, put on music, etc.)

    -See your relationships as opportunities to improve this middah

    ===============================================================

    “I feel like we were created a certain way, and then given the mitzvah not to be that way (not to sound apikorsodik).”

    You were given this middah to work on, not to keep as is!

    -Both Esav and David Hamelech were given the same characteristics: red, murderous, etc. Yet look how with identical angry characters, they each CHOSE their own path in life.

    -Both Bilaam and Moshe Rabbenu were given similar characteristics, but they channeled their characteristics differently.

    You are on your way to change your spiritual and physical health!

    Hatzlacha raba!

    #815039
    yungerman1
    Participant

    mommamia22- I’ve heard that concept of not apologzing directly, but never with a reputable source. Until then, I strongly disagree. Children are no less human than anyone else.

    If you did something wrong you need to ask mechila like everyone else. From a chinuch standpoint its great to discuss how you will react differently next time so your child can learn to do the same.

    But dont you see how much more you can teach them by apologizing? Some times kids feel that parents give them no respect -another thing that some parents wrongly feel they are allowed to do- and dont care about their feelings. Asking mechila will boost their self respect- and respect you more for it. They will see how hard it was for you to apologize and learn to do the right thing even when it is difficult. (I feel very strongly about this.)

    #815040
    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    Add this to my previous list- thanks, yungerman1

    -that they are worthy of respect and respectful behavior (a boost to their self-esteem as well)

    #815041
    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    m22- a limerick for you!

    Your question is not heretical

    It is just quite intellectual

    Just go to some lengths

    To focus on your strengths

    Pray your weakness be less detectable

    #815042
    yitayningwut
    Participant

    mommamia22-

    I think rosesaharon was talking to the public with that comment, that in general, people’s children will remember… And he/she (?) was commending what you did, as would I.

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