December 19, 2017 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1430101ReuBrewParticipant
My employer specifically calls their winter work event a Christmas Party, not a Holiday Party as has become more common nowadays.
If they call it a Christmas party does that automatically make any food even if kosher forbidden as food dedicated to an idol?
Does this semantic difference preclude a Jew from attending or partaking?December 19, 2017 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #1430144JosephParticipant
Even if a company calls it a “holiday party” it is still a Christmas party. The naming semantics the company chooses doesn’t determine whether it’s a Christmas party or not. If your company suddenly threw out the invitations and reprinted them with it saying holiday party instead of saying Christmas party, that doesn’t change the metzius of what it is just because they gave it a new name on the invitations.
Teire Yidden! Our zeidas and bubbes were killed Al Kiddush Hashem during the Christmas “season” by these mobs of goyim coming back from Mass, having been incited to murder by their priests accusing us of deicide. How can any of us go to a party celebrating this black day, regardless of what your employer names it?!?December 19, 2017 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1430259👑RebYidd23Participant
Joseph, Saturnalia is coming back into style in some circles. So you can’t really be sure that it’s a Christmas party.December 19, 2017 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #1430278ubiquitinParticipant
For example Rabbi Neustadt writes in his book
““it depends on the type of party the company is having. Many times, a company’s holiday party has nothing to do with the celebration of the holiday.” It may instead be an “employee appreciation party,” which happens to be held during the non-Jewish holiday season; in that case, “there is no halachic objection to attending. But if the intention of the party is to celebrate the actual non-Jewish holiday, it would be forbidden for a Jew to attend.”
what the party is called very mush matters. Though it might not necessarily be muttar even if it isnt a party celebrating a specific goyish holidayDecember 19, 2017 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #1430276ubiquitinParticipant
“Even if a company calls it a “holiday party” it is still a Christmas party.”
this line is nonsensical, unless some form of mass was taking place I am not sure what defines a “Christmas party” Other than a party celebrating Christmas. IF it is a Seasons’ greeting party or a Holiday party then it isnt celebrating Christmas. The Whitehorse hosted a Chanuka party 2 weeks ago (a week before chanuka) was this a Christmas party, a chanuka PArty a holiday party , a birthday pary or nothing. If they call it a chanuka party then that is what it is. IF it isnt called a christmas party then it isnt a Christmas party. There is no halachic chalos of a shem on a party Not any party held this time of year is assur.
There are halachos about going to such parties and about socializing with Goyim in general. It isnt autmaticly assur just because it is in December, though not neccesarily muttar either.
Personally I wouldn’t go if they called it a “christmas party” out of a sense of Jewish pride as Joseph concludes
“Our zeidas and bubbes were killed Al Kiddush Hashem during the Christmas “season” by these mobs of goyim coming back from Mass, ”
Wait arent we supposed to wish that happens to us?
maybe if you go to such a party and they get drunk you will get lucky.December 19, 2017 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #1430386jdf007Participant
According to my daily email:
“Happy Holidays [your name here]
‘Tis the Season
As the holiday season approaches, …
We hope that your holiday and New Year ”
Holiday is always singular and is never given any thought to being inclusive or broad. Holiday never includes “New Year”.
Other holiday emails seem to always be after Hanukah, and way after in some cases.
Ergo, they can call it whatever they want, but in context it always means the same thing. It’s just an insult to my intelligence when they use the singular “H” word instead of the “C” word.
Like others have said, I doubt there will be a Mass or anything remotely connected to a real holiday. Maybe if they exchange presents?December 19, 2017 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #1430385lesschumrasParticipant
What people don’t realize that Christmas was not celebrated in the US until the 1870’s when the Irish brought it with them. It had been observed in 17th century England with 12 days of heavy drinking in bars and all sorts of licencious behavior. So when the “chareidi” Puritans came to Massachusetts in the 17th century they made its observance illegal. It eventually was decriminalized but not observed.December 19, 2017 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #1430384lesschumrasParticipant
Joseph, you’ve mixed up your holidays. Easter was the holiday where Jews were forced to to go to church and be yelled at by the priests and when Jews were assaulted by mobs incited by the priests.
I remember as a 5 year old in the 1950’s a 5 year old Italian boy who lived in my apartment building in Brooklyn asked me on Easter Sunday why I killed JC. I asked who was JC. He said he didn’t know either but that morning his priest said we killed himDecember 19, 2017 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #1430342akupermaParticipant
Note that Saturnalia is specifically mention in Mishna Avodah Zarah (as something we can’t get invovled in). No matter what you rename it, it’s still avodah zarah. And then there is the matter how one can be celebrating while Yerusalayim is yet to be rebuilt and restored (this argument only works on hareidim, zionists think otherwise).December 20, 2017 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1430834ReuBrewParticipant
If anyone is interested I asked a shaila and at least according to the Rav I asked it does make a difference. If it is essentially an Xmas party with all the trappings than even calling it a holiday party wouldn’t help. But if it is essentaily just a work lunch/function than I could go if it is called a holiday party but not an Xmas party.
The Rav said that if it is called an Xmas party than even kosher food there would be forbiden, even leftovers later.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.