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I was out at corporate training yesterday. During the lunch break, I went to a kosher deli and ordered a soup and sandwich to take back to the training center. When I got to the counter to pay for my meal, the cashier informed me that with my choice of meal, I get a free soda.
“Great,” I said. “I’ll just go back and take a can on the way out.”
After she packed up my lunch, I made my way back to the refrigerated display where the cans of soda were kept, took one, put it in my bag and left the store.
After I left the store, it dawned on me that it might have appeared to some people that I stole a can of soda. Not being aware of my conversation with the cashier, all they saw was a guy going up to the fridge, taking a can, putting it in his bag and walking out.
Now, there is definitely no question of theft, as I was entitled to the soda. But is there a possibility of a much more serious violation of creating a chillul HaShem. Mind you, I don’t know if anyone saw what I did, or took note of it, but the potential was certainly there.
But what would have been the alternative? Explain to everyone as I left that I was allowed to take the soda? That would have been socially awkward (not to mention that there was no good reason to disturb others who were peacefully eating). So, what could I have done to avoid even the appearance of impropriety?
The Wolf
What’s worse, social awkwardness or Chillul Hashem? You decide.
i agree with canine
if you cheshboned that you might have created a Chillul Hashem you should have gone back and explained what happened and why you are explaining it.
some might have thought you silly
some might have been impressed,
personally i wouldnt have gone back though, among a few reasons is that i might have been creating a chillul Hashem among those there that thought i was “tithing from straw”
I have been in similar situations, where you pay by the register and then take a drink later. What I do is hold it in my hand, walk past the register on my way out and say “I got my drink, thanks.”
I had a similar situation recently and I handled it similarly to the way asyyeger said. I had accidentally taken a cottage cheese with olives to the checkout, and as she was ringing it up, I noticed that it was the wrong one. (I had meant to buy one without olives.) I told the cashier and she said that I should just go back and take the one I wanted and she would meanwhile ring it up so I didn’t have to go through the line again. I went back, took the cheese, and on my way out, held it up to the cashier and said, “Thanks, I got it.” Better not to take chances of chillul Hashem.
(That said, had I already left the store, I wouldn’t have gone back to explain. I think that would have made you look really strange.)
I’d do what asyyeger said, or catch someone’s attention, wave, etc.
You might like Rabbi Reisman’s motzei Shabbos shiur of last week on just this subject.
You went to a kosher deli filled, presumably with Jewish customers and you are worried a) of a chilul Hashem and b) that no one was dan l’kaf z’chus?
why couldnt you have taken the drink and then said something to the cashier to show that you are entitled to the soda? that way every hears that you are not stealing
better not to take the drink maybe
cottage cheese with olives? really?
the cottage cheese sounds interesting to me never seen that. I just got carried away with that detail and could not read the rest of the post
I doubt a frum Jew in a frum restaurent would steal a $1 can of coke…
I don’t see it as a problem. Many fast food places (Schnitzi, pizza stores, ect) have a line for food, you progress to the register, and the fridge is off to the side, and self service.
You had a bag in hand, so its stands to reason that you paid for what you ordered at the cashier, and I see no reason to suspect that you would steal the soda.
Plus, you look honest, so that would nail it for me!
Wolf,
I like asyyeger’s idea, but I highly doubt there’s a chillul Hashem since people saw you walking out with an obviously paid for meal, and you most likely didn’t have a guilty look on your face when you walked out.
Homeowner,
1) There is Chillul Hashem with Jews
2) There is an inyan of maris ayin and “v’hiyisem nikiyim” despite the obligation to be dan l’kaf z’chus.
a) I would have been late for the training
b) I wouldn’t have the chance to eat at all
c) There’s no saying that the same customers would still be there
it sounded from the way you wrote it that you had this thought right after leaving the store (though you didnt actually say that)
but in any case if you really were concerned that you had caused a chillul Hashem then your reasons a and b should of little or no consideration
and even reason c is of little consequence if you actually felt this was a potential chillul Hashem, as some or all might still have been there.
However, I’m curious if that, too, would cause a chillul HaShem, as it may cause people to think “that guy’s just not normal. Is that what Jews do?”
Au contraire. They would say “Is that what Jews do? Wow, they are a Godly people!”
” Do I know you? ”
Sure… I’m the honest looking person.
I’m with asyyeger on this one — if I have to go back and get something after I pay, that’s what I do, just to prevent any mis-impressions.
Once it’s done with however, I don’t think you really have to worry, because as other posters said most likely people realized what happened. Often in stores with self-service drinks, individuals will take a drink after they pay.
As for your other point, I have never heard that there is an issue of Chillul Hashem just because your actions seem “not normal” (assuming they are not objectively negative actions). Shabbos and Kashrus are “not normal”, too, but there is no Chillul Hashem in publicly doing it! Certainly tznius is not normal, but we don’t worry that when we walk in the streets in the summer goyim are thinking “are they normal to be dressing that way?” (And trust me, that’s exactly what they are thinking!) On the contrary, publicly performing miztvos is considered a Kiddush Hashem. I am not addressing whether you should have gone back (I think there is enough grounds to assume no Chillul Hashem was made), but just disagreeing with this argument that being viewed as strange would be in the category of Chillul Hashem.
“I’m with asyyeger on this one — if I have to go back and get something after I pay, that’s what I do, just to prevent any mis-impressions.” … same here.
Next time, Wolf, Just tape your receipt to your nose and announce on a loudspeaker that you paid for the coke. Nooone will question your diligence. Just your sanity.
basket of radishes~ ROTFL!
I have had others ahead of me in line find out that a soft drink was included in the deal, leave the line, get the soda, and return to finish paying. It had not occurred to me that they were trying to avoid the appearance of having gotten something for nothing, since, if you are a regular customer, you would know that a soda comes with, and, if you aren’t, you have been to places with the same arrangement. I just thought they were oblivious to those behind them in line waiting to pay for their food. This, of course, probably reflects on me more than them.
I wouldnt think anything of it
Whos to say you haven’t paid for it whilst in the queue
And collected it afterwards
Asyyeger gave a great answer and it is exactly what i do. Sometimes it is that I neglected to take the second jar in a two for one sale. So when I take the second jar, I go back to the checkout person and say, thanks, I found the second jar I was entitled to take.
I dont make a whole scene out of going back to the cashier and announcing to him that I “got” it. (Besides, he could care less, and already forgot about me.) Maybe If I was a guy.. What I do is hold my thing out in plain view and stroll out slowly and confidently. If I was stealing I would grab it and run..
cottage cheese with olives? really?
Really truly. It’s about as standard here as low-fat milk.
“cottage cheese with olives”
And cream cheese with olives and “gevina levana” with olives, too!
(It is one of the shivas haminim after all. . .)
Why are we all playing into the attempt of someone who is far to the left side in hashkofo and in bein odom lemakoim to show off what a “tzaddik” he is in bein odom lechavyro? This is a total non-issue and just a way for someone to show off.
What exactly is bein odom lachaveiro here? Wolf is concerned about chillul Hashem, not about hurting another person. It seems to me that this is bein odom lamakom.
I really don’t get the feeling that Wolf is trying to show off. He seems like an honest person who is sincerely asking how he should have behaved in this situation. Just because his hashkofos are different from yours, it does not mean that everything he does has an ulterior motive.
the attempt of someone who is far to the left side in hashkofo and in bein odom lemakoim to show off what a “tzaddik” he is in bein odom lechavyro
That may be your suspicion, but it’s not based on anything. I think it’s unfair to assume, and certainly to post.
Fear of chillul Hashem is, or at least should be, universal across the entire spectrum of frum society, and there’s no reason to assume lack of sincerity regardless of other hashkafos.
On the contrary, I usually portray myself in the other direction.
Usually? 😉
There’s something written on this, I believe in the Living the Parshah series. I don’t remember what parshah it’s from. It gives an example of a man who is shopping, and the express checkout line for 10 items or less was empty. The cashier offered to check him out. While he was doing so, another person came with just a few items, and had to wait.
The funny thing was, I had the same thing just a few days later. When someone else came behind me, I turned, apologized, and explained what happened. I avoided even the appearance of doing something wrong.
wolf- if you really think of yourself that way then why dont you change?
Argh!
Doesn’t it annoy anyone else when half the conversation is deleted? I would also like to know what a Shvitzer is, so I googled it:
From “The Forward”
A shvitzer is a braggart, and the term is definitely derogatory, though not in the extreme. A shvitzer need not necessarily be a bad, unkind or even unlikable person. He does, however, have a need to boast of his own virtues, achievements and connections, which certainly can make him disagreeable company at times.
I believe that I am that way despite my best efforts to the contrary.
What kind of (unsuccessful) efforts do you expend to the contrary?
I don’t try to be a heretic… I just am.
And yet, many frum Jews would consider me a heretic and a lousy human being anyway.
Yourself included?
So, who am I to argue with them?
Why do you choose to believe them that you’re an apikores; you’d be better off believing in their hashkafos so that you wouldn’t be one (since you anyhow think they’re correct for considering you an apikores).
I don’t try to be a heretic… I just am.
And yet, many frum Jews would consider me a heretic and a lousy human being anyway.
Yup, count me in too. I just don’t think most of them are Frum (AKA Yeraim as Rav Moshe put it, or following Halacha) so it all evens out in the end.
But I do not have Lice!
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