April 2, 2012 3:15 am at 3:15 am #602757
Do bochurim really need this vacation because they are “burned out”? or is this just utter nonsense? do they really need a month off pesach?????April 2, 2012 3:17 am at 3:17 am #867406MiddlePathParticipant
They should be using this time off to help clean, shop, and do anything necessary to assist their families.April 2, 2012 3:27 am at 3:27 am #867407Sam2Participant
Have you ever learned nonstop for 5 months? Yes, plenty of guys need it. And those who don’t have plenty of time to learn while on break.April 2, 2012 3:35 am at 3:35 am #867408
ya but i’ve heard many people say that boys often lose what they got the whole zman from hangin out with the wrong people over bein hazmanim.
I’ve never heard anyone say that. -95April 2, 2012 3:38 am at 3:38 am #867409
and what about the guys that daven at the 11 and 12 minyanim? is that the right thing?April 2, 2012 3:48 am at 3:48 am #867410
hey, don’t attack my bain hazmanim. how else would my mother clean the car for pesach?April 2, 2012 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #867411shmoelMember
Telling a bochor to work during bein hazmanim is akin to telling a working man to take a part-time job during his 2-3 weeks of vacation days from his employment.April 2, 2012 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #867412Avi KParticipant
Having a short vacation for the Chagim makes sense but ten weeks per year is exaggerated. I think that they originated in the days when travel times were very long and married men (who often went away to learn) needed time to go home to their families, spend the holidays with them and come back.April 3, 2012 1:14 am at 1:14 am #867413
ya…a bit exxagerated having 10 weeks. there shouldn’t e more then 5 weeks!April 3, 2012 2:42 am at 2:42 am #867414
it actually comes from a gemara in berachos 35b
?”? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????????? ???? ???:April 3, 2012 2:47 am at 2:47 am #867415
chacham i hear ya but wat about the summer bitul torah?April 3, 2012 3:56 am at 3:56 am #867416
yes, the bochurim who do what theyre supposed to during the zman need amonth. yes, there are those who dont need it. but the same way you baalebatim wont give up internet just because some people do aveiros with it, so too is the yeshivish world entitled to bein hazmanim.April 3, 2012 4:04 am at 4:04 am #867417
Toi – funny “tzushtel”, not sure ’bout that one.
No, I don’t think you need a full month, then three weekd after 3 months of zman, and certainly not 3 weeks after 5 weeks of elul zman! And I’ve rarely met the bachur who disagrees (in principle).
And Bein Hazmanim doesn’t have to mean “vacation” in the literal sense”. The change of routine, which could include helping at home, goes a long way (talking to shmoel here).April 3, 2012 4:44 am at 4:44 am #867418
logician- i simply mean that the fact it isnt needed or useful by all doesnt mean it shouldnt exist. the tzushel was to be mekarev it el haseichel to daas baalebatim. i do agree after elul zman its a bit much.
avi k- Married men went to learn?? are you insinuating that kollel existed before twenty years ago and isnt a product of lakewood??April 3, 2012 5:05 am at 5:05 am #867419
Toi – do you think bein hazmanim really works ? (Maybe this is not a good forum for this.) You know the joke – you have a long bein hazmanim so you actually want the zman to start again! (I know, its in bad taste)April 3, 2012 5:45 am at 5:45 am #867420sam4321Participant
If one loves Torah they will learn during bein hazmanim as well, and take care of what they have to do ,it is all about being honest with oneself(mature).April 3, 2012 8:15 am at 8:15 am #867421yaff80Participant
“Having a short vacation for the Chagim makes sense but ten weeks per year is exaggerated”
I am not a full time learner, but I can “Fargin” their 10 weeks holiday, and dont think its excessive.
If you were to add up all the Sundays, bank holidays,Yom tov days and other holidays that working people have, you get more than 10 weeks. 52 Sundays is already the equavalent of 7 weeks!
Full time learners learn every Sunday, every bankholiday and dont get off any extra holidays.
In balance, they deserve a break, yes every moment of the 10 weeks they get, to recharge their batteries.April 3, 2012 11:25 am at 11:25 am #867422ImaofthreeParticipant
I am sure some bochurim need the break. My husband used to get a job during the time he had off from yeshiva, before we were married. I know some bachurim take this college course for bochurim who want to get some credits during bein hazmanim.April 3, 2012 12:15 pm at 12:15 pm #867423
You know, people who are not away in yeshiva for six months (minus a shabbos here and there) straight really have no say in this matter at all. And besides what do you think i am doing all day- spacing out?
walk into most batei midrashos of Lakewood (or maybe any other town but I can only speak about what i know)and you will see they are packed with bachurim learning. Many of them do not even have extra seats.
Ain hachi nami i do not learn as much as during the zman but but it is not shayich to go on forever with no breakApril 3, 2012 1:43 pm at 1:43 pm #867424bobbys cowParticipant
Anyone who doesn’t understand the need for bein hazmanim falls into one of 2 categories:
1) People who, because of their gender or upbringing, never attended a full time post high school yeshiva, and therefore don’t understand that learning torah actually tires you out emotionally and saps your strength of will to continue to push to do the right thing. If people wouldn’t have bein hazmanim, many of them wouldn’t only “burn out” in terms of learning, but they may also even “burn out in other matters of ruchniyus, ch”v. A person with his priorities straight, in most cases, should be able to push himself to learn the whole seder, every seder, for an entire zman, but still will at some point reach the point of diminishing returns, where more time spent learning actually detracts from his ability to keep learning and doing mitzvos. That is where bein hazmanim comes in, and the boy will have time to recharge his drive to learn and still learn a few hours a day while “on vacation.” (vacation from yeshiva, not from mitzvos. helping at home is very important).
2) People who, because of their unusual and special kochos, actually don’t need bein hazmanim. These people are very rare, and they should take advantage of their time during bein hazmanim to learn as much as possible, possibly topics that they don’t get the opportunity to learn during the zman. They should definitely not be wasting their time in the YWN coffee room. (They also should help out at home as much as their parents want them to. It is good for their middos, good for their marriages IY”H, and also the right thing to do. But when they aren’t busy with Kibbud Av Vaeim and Yom Tov preparations…)
The only people I didn’t cover, except those who love bein hazmanim the way it is, are those who are full time learners who are ALMOST in category 2), but not fully there. Those people might say that bein hazmanim is too long, and for themselves, they are right. But they should put aside more time than average during bein hazmanim to learn, and, more importantly, they should realize that they are special and that other people do actually need all the time they get. (Since they understand the need for some break, they should be able to comprehend how some people need the a little more time than themselves).April 3, 2012 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #867425
@Avi K: “Having a short vacation for the Chagim makes sense but ten weeks per year is exaggerated.”
I fully agree. However, I do think bochurim need a little more time than aveichim. In particular, I think a solution would be to learn a little less so that they would not get so ’emotionally tired’ and then need these huge breaks.
For example, learn from 9:00 to 16:00, and have 6-7 weeks of vacation per year – that would sound reasonable. Maybe even 8 weeks. Learning from 8:00 to 22:00 is what causes people to burn out. Learning a little less can actually make one learn more.
Of course everyone is different.April 3, 2012 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #867426Bar Bay RavParticipant
I don’t understand, all of these bochurim go to Yeshivos where there are Roshei Yeshiva who are their Manhigim in all matters of Ruchniyus (or should be). So Al Pi Pashtus this is a Shaila for the Roshei Yeshiva to Pasken and they don’t seem to be telling the bochurim to be getting jobs. (But helping at home they certainly do tell them).April 3, 2012 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #867427
chamcham: you start to make me wonder what yeshiva your in cuz i’m prob going to a post high school yeshiva in lkwd next year!April 3, 2012 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #867428BTGuyParticipant
They definitely need the time off and benefit greatly.
No matter what they make of their time in yeshiva, still, they are out long hours and it is a long day.April 3, 2012 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #867429zahavasdadParticipant
Learning from 8:00 to 22:00 is what causes people to burn out. Learning a little less can actually make one learn more
Translation : On this side of the pond thats from 8am to 10PMApril 3, 2012 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #867430
I really do trhink it works and is needed. i can attest that one year my pesach bein hazmanim was cut very short due to a bunch of circumstances, and my summer zman suffered.April 3, 2012 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #867431DJHockerMember
We need this time to research the upcoming NFL draft and to get ready for Hockey NBA playoffs and to watch the NCAA Championship gameApril 3, 2012 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #867432HealthParticipant
HIE -“ya but i’ve heard many people say that boys often lose what they got the whole zman from hangin out with the wrong people over bein hazmanim.”
“I’ve never heard anyone say that. -95”
I’ve heard it & I believe it’s true! And I get really worried about my son during Bein Hazmanim.April 3, 2012 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #867433on the ballParticipant
The summer bein hazmanim is a relatively new thing, it used to be just Pesach and Sukkos to give time to the bochurim to get home in the days when there were no cars.
Yes if you add up all the Sundays that’s extra on top of a working man’s schedule but then don’t forget about Fridays…..April 3, 2012 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #867434
on the ball- al kol ponim in america, theres seder till twelve or one, and then a few hours to eat lunch, learn a bit, shave and shower, remove ingrown toenails etc. hardly a vacation.April 3, 2012 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #867435bobbys cowParticipant
toi- that was a very nice description of most yeshiva guys’ fridays. thank you for telling us!
(it was realistic, i’ll give you that…)April 3, 2012 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #867436
hiE- qhat i meant is that most batei midrashim as in shuls are full of bachurim during bain hazmanim. THe bais medrash i g to is not in lakewood, but i am home for bain hazmanimApril 3, 2012 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #867437blablaParticipant
I think the boys should have much less vacation. At least the girls should have more and shouldn’t be kept in school to prevent them from mingling with the guys…and the girls are the ones that help their mothers most of the time. Its not fair that girls are kept in school for so long because of boys having off.
And I’ve also heard it said about girls and boys that they often loose everything they had gained over vacations…
JUST IMHO so don’t start yelling at me 🙂April 3, 2012 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #867438
blabla: excuse me! Boys help quite a bit. dont say that boys do nothing and the girls do everything that is utterly false!April 3, 2012 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #867439PeerimsameachParticipant
I did not read the while thread but two words to answer the q. Heck yea! It’s does individual but with regard to me it is a massive success!! Listen from my experiences the boys who r going to learn are going to learn with or without the vacation, this just allows for people who are more human to recharge Nd do something diffrent for a change. Not to mention getmuch needed exercise!!!!!!April 4, 2012 12:23 am at 12:23 am #867440
as if boys dont help. you know what? leave the boys in yeshiva and see who shleps the couch/fridge/extra beds/tables/ponies!April 4, 2012 1:44 am at 1:44 am #867441
peerimsameach: take a chill dude! you don’t need soo much vacation! 5 weeks is more then enough!April 4, 2012 2:28 am at 2:28 am #867442blablaParticipant
HIE-I’m in no way saying that boys don’t do anything. The reality is that girls are the ones who help out usually in the kitchen which is a huge part of pesach! But yeah, boys do help cleaning the car or garbage or running errands etc.April 4, 2012 2:32 am at 2:32 am #867443
Toi – I know what you mean, I meant the length.
This thread had potential to actually create some interesting conversation. But it degenerated pretty quickly, like most threads these days.April 4, 2012 3:27 am at 3:27 am #867444
blabla: that is utterly false. Boys help quite a bit in the kitchen like changing over the kitchen to pesachdig. pealing vegetables/fruitts and so on… Boys are just as much needed at home as are girls.
logician: ok so why don’t you get us back on topic…April 4, 2012 3:37 am at 3:37 am #867445
Why are there so many learning programs bein hazmanim, if the point is to rest/take a break/change of pace etc ?April 4, 2012 3:46 am at 3:46 am #867446
in my house the boys do everything the girls do plus all the shlepping etc.April 4, 2012 3:56 am at 3:56 am #867447
logican- the programs are made to encourage learning. nobody says not to learn during bain hazmanim. just the idea of a break is that there is no pressure and you can learn what you want when you want. And you aren’t forced to be in yeshiva from 7-11April 5, 2012 12:49 am at 12:49 am #867449
Yes, but the main point is the no pressure, and these programs certainly create pressureApril 5, 2012 2:07 am at 2:07 am #867450
logician: what in the world are you talking about/?? These programs have absolutely no pressure. The one in my area davens 8:30 they serve breakfast and then they learn from 10 till 12 and then have a shiur for 45 minutes. what kind of pressure is that. That is a perfect type of learning for bein hazmanim. please explain what you mean that these programs create too much pressure!April 5, 2012 2:36 am at 2:36 am #867451
How about the yeshivos that offer big tests, with rewards, after bein hazmanim, which would require a LOT of chazarah.April 5, 2012 2:49 am at 2:49 am #867452
logician: Been there. Done it. All these tests and reward systems that the yeshivos offer do not require all that much learning. maybe 1-3 hours a day. That isn’t all that much. There is no program in any yeshiva that is telling the kids to sit and learn 10 hours a day bein hazmanim!April 5, 2012 2:50 am at 2:50 am #867453
been everywhere, done all of it, huh ?
Please don’t bother responding, this is a pretty inane conversationApril 5, 2012 4:38 am at 4:38 am #867454
Ive been through the yeshiva system and i know what all of these programs are about.April 5, 2012 8:01 am at 8:01 am #867455feif the matzivMember
in my house only 2 of my older brothers help and do tonz of things that are really important. the other one seems to get away w/ doing not as much. lol. but i think bein hazmanim is very important for boys.
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