December 30, 2008 12:01 am at 12:01 am #628635AshreinuParticipant
Wolf – I am not upset nor did I take it personally. The petty childishness the thread deteriorated into is at fault.
“The topic at hand” is the OP’s original Post.December 30, 2008 12:14 am at 12:14 am #628636BemusedParticipant
“Now I realize that he is a vile enemy of Torah Judaism.”
The drama here is beyond amusing. Perhaps some nice relaxing music can help…December 30, 2008 12:36 am at 12:36 am #628637BogenParticipant
Why not return to your cave? You have a lot of azus to get on your high-horse, especially considering how wrong you are. Anyone who can use the disgusting language you engaged in, calls into question their self. I personally doubt your authenticity as a yid, especially considering the experiance we’ve seen of anti-semites coming onto Jewish sites to engage in their illness. If you are not a gentile, you surely are a self-hating jew. Please keep your vileness off here. Thank YouDecember 30, 2008 2:00 am at 2:00 am #628638yossieaParticipant
So Bogen is allowed a free pass to insult because he is defending a “yeshivish” person?
A bit of advice, if you want to start being taken seriously, you have to stop with the double standard of modding.December 30, 2008 2:12 am at 2:12 am #628640ujmParticipant
What dd posted is quite vile. How that rant made it, is the question. He is the antithesis of Torah-true Jew. I hope he doesn’t represent the typical mo man on the street; but I think he does.December 30, 2008 3:02 am at 3:02 am #628641ddMember
I will not respond to Bogen/ujm. At a time of crisis, when we are facing war, I’d rather daven for the protection of our brave chayalim instead of arguing with the tiny minority of Jews who make so much noise on YWN.
“Never argue with a pig. It just frustrates you and annoys the pig.”December 30, 2008 3:36 am at 3:36 am #628642asdfghjklParticipant
chaimss: wow yashar koach to you!!!! hatzlacha!!!!December 30, 2008 4:08 am at 4:08 am #628643Will HillParticipant
dd, You clearly have no response to give. Calling them pigs, and the other ad hominems you’ve engaged in, does your profile no good.December 30, 2008 4:18 am at 4:18 am #628644Chuck SchwabParticipant
dd’s stooped to calling posters pigs? no idea how that slipped by the mods. they’re usually pretty good at keeping such coarse comments off the site.December 30, 2008 6:05 am at 6:05 am #628645chaimssParticipant
Ashreinu- I assure you I’ve contacted informed people, both Chaplains and others. I was just looking for more opinions from the wider Frum oilam, and to know if anyone knew anyone whom I could contact.December 30, 2008 6:42 am at 6:42 am #628646chaimssParticipant
asdfghjkl- Thank you 🙂December 30, 2008 6:58 am at 6:58 am #628647BemusedParticipant
Here, dd, this might help you:
Hatzlacha. May you find and succeed in the path that is best for you on all levels.December 30, 2008 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #628648eyesopenMember
To Chaimss: I admire you because of the fact that your reason for wanting to join the military is idealistic-you want to feel as though you are doing something active to fight the yishmaelim who are clearly out to kill us. So many today wish they could be doing something more, it is frustrating. If you can still be in the Torah world, and yet get the military training, and your rav and your parents are not against this move, then why not?December 30, 2008 12:39 pm at 12:39 pm #628649just meParticipant
Chaim, I have an aquaintence who is frum and in the Army. He just left Iraq. I don’t know what he did about Shabbos, but I knwo that he kept kosher. I used to send him packages with tuna and gefilte fish and other stuff. I know that some kosher food is available there. I don’t think too much, because of what he had asked for.
Hashem should guide you and always keep you safe where every you find yourself.
As for everyone else, Chaim started out saying that he asked his shailos already so why are you paskening? If your curious (like it’s your business or something)you might aske who his rav is. Again, not like it’s your business. This is not our country but it is a very good host country. We should support it and prey for it’s saftey. Our country and our allighance (Sorry, I can’t spell for beans) will be to the leadership of Moshiach. Until then, this country with all the anti-Semitism, still treats Jews better than any other country on earth.December 30, 2008 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #628650gavra_at_workParticipant
I had a chavrusa whos father was in the army, i believe involved with computers (worked at some fort near Lakewood). He did not seem to have any issues with Halacha.
As always, ask your LOR.
Mods come on! could we get a “stick to the post” and delete all the hate?
(to quote King, “Can’t we all just get along?”)
(Rodney, that is)December 30, 2008 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #628651anon for thisParticipant
Actually the quote is: “Never wrestle with a pig. You’ll just get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.” Just sayin’.December 30, 2008 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #628652Yanky55Member
DD’s post made it on here because once in a while, the mods. allow the TRUTH to be expressed!!!!December 30, 2008 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #628653ZachKessinMember
I thought about joining the USAF Some years back but decided not too. However I was able to find a Rabbi who was serving in the Air Force (Go to the chaplaincy web page dig around a bit). From what he said it can be done but it is hard. The main thing you will have to keep in mind is that the “Needs of the Service” come first. So if they need you in Minot AFB (Minot ND) and you are the only Frum person for 500 miles well you won’t have much of a life.
That being said I would suggest you find someone in the Air Force to talk to instead of the folks here who probably don’t know much.
Good luck with whatever you decide!December 30, 2008 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #628654
just me raises another pertinent point. Aside from the Pekuach Nefesh problems, once you are in the service (and even while you are training), are you able to maintain Shabbos Kodesh 100%?December 30, 2008 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #628655WolfishMusingsParticipant
Aside from the Pekuach Nefesh problems, once you are in the service (and even while you are training), are you able to maintain Shabbos Kodesh 100%?
I think a frum military chaplain would be best equipped to answer that question.
The WolfDecember 30, 2008 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #628656jphoneMember
YWN Editor/moderators. Wouldnt we all be better off discussing Sports instead of the vile sinas chinam, stupidity and hostility threads such as these seem to generate? I agree that it is good for business, it brings traffic to your site which enables you to charges advertisers a decent fee, but at what price? When will you open a Sports area in the Cofee Room? 🙂 Will sports drive people away from your site? I doubt it. It will allow those who want to vent to take out their frustrations on a (for example) football player instead of spewing hateful, false garbage about Israeli soldiers (this site is filled with many such threads and loaded with many hateful, shameful and hurtful comments by yidden about yidden).December 30, 2008 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #628657
And what heter is there if, say, you are deployed to Somalia or Haiti on a ”peacekeeping” mission (”Peacekeeping” is the only one thing Democrat Presidents think the U.S. Military is useful for.)
Aside from the fact no Yiddishe lives are at risk during a Somalian or Haitian ”peacekeeping mission”, no American lives are even at stake, and you are risking your life (pekuach nefesh) in vain and are violating Shabbos Kodesh for some krumme savages halfway around the world. (I doubt your Warrant Officer [or Comimissioned Officer be it as it may] will exempt you from working in the Somalian hinterlands on Shabbos.)
(Now all the attack dogs can start yelling at me for being such a frummie, and how dare I raise such illegitimate halachic questions with such an idealistic potential Officer!)December 30, 2008 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #628658mdlevineMember
Chaimss wrote I have asked shailos both hashkafically (my Rebbi) and halachically (A gadol)
why are people questioning him what his heter is. He asked, was given a psak and is following it. those that are questioning him are really questioning the Rabbonim that he consulted – I am sure that they are aware of the possibilities of being sent to unsafe areas in far out regions.December 30, 2008 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #628659
mdlevine, In the OP chaimss solicited posters ”thoughts on this”.December 30, 2008 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #628660aryeh.in.tennParticipant
I am new to YWN/Coffee Room, but have been reading a few of the threads each day. This is one is the first one I will have contributed to, and feel that it is appropriate since the questioner asked for feedback from people who have 1st, 2nd or 3rd hand information.
I know two Jewish young men who are currently serving in the US armed forces. 1) A good friend’s son graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy and is currently completing his training as a pilot, and 2) a member of our shul who is in the Army Reserves and has gone to Iraq several times over the last few years.
In the first case, the young man’s Yiddishkeit has suffered. In the second case, I frankly don’t know how he maintains Shabbos or kashrus while he serves (as well as the inevitable and possibly inappropriate mixing with female officers and enlisted personnel). From hearing his descriptions it would be very difficult, if not impossible. But I have never asked him directly since I did not wish to embarrass him at shul by how he might be forced to answer.
So, my response is that one must be very certain that their Yiddishkeit will not be compromised while serving in the U.S. military before volunteering for service. But I am sure that the rabbis he consulted were very careful in their responses and gave this young man very good advice.
I wish him all the best no matter what he decides.December 30, 2008 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #628661ddMember
I hate to wade back into this thread, but is anyone else here bothered by a certain poster calling people in Haiti or Somalia “some krumme savages”? The people in Haiti and Somalia are b’tzelem Elokim.December 30, 2008 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #628662
Thank you for your input. The points you raise (including mixing with females) are very serious, and worthy of great consideration.December 30, 2008 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #628663anon for thisParticipant
This is an issue that’s come up before and bothers me as well. I noted in another thread that all people are created b’tzelem Elokim, and we as Jews are not reflecting our greatness by referring to people as savages or using racial epiphets (in yiddish or english). However, given the skeptical/ negative reaction I received there and in other posts, I’ve mostly given up on this.
I’ve decided to take my own quote above to heart.December 30, 2008 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #628664mdlevineMember
correct Joseph he asked for thoughts on this – meaning pros/cons of joining. he specifically mentioned that he consulted with 2 Rabbinic authorities. apparently the heter he has already received. there is no need to question him on this. now he is just trying to figure out if he should join or not. I suggest that we leave the conversation to this. So do you have 1st, 2nd… 100th hand information that you would like to share or just every possible worst case scenerio that the Rabbonim were already aware of when he asked the question? if yes, then share it. if no, then perhaps there is no need to comment on a thread where your post does not add value.December 30, 2008 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #628665intellegentMember
The people living in those places are certainly created b’tzelem elokim but Frum Jewish people I think are also created b’tzelem elokim. V’hamevin Yavin.December 30, 2008 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #628666
mdlevine, In subsequent posts to the OP, chaimss has expressed appreciation for the valid halachic issues raised my the comments here.December 30, 2008 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #628667WolfishMusingsParticipant
The points you raise (including mixing with females) are very serious, and worthy of great consideration.
Why should mixing with females be more of an issue than in any other workplace?
The WolfDecember 30, 2008 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #628668AliyahLiftParticipant
I have a brother in law that did ROTC. The other guys in the program were rather ‘rough characters’. KWIM?
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