May 30, 2021 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #1978963
Syag >> how drastically different your “quote” was from the truth?
I do not. I suggest you actually say what you mean. I listened to his talk off his website.
sorry for mixing up Twerskys with Twerskis – is there a split in the family based on the y/i?!
ujm > seforimblog isn’t reliable.
they refer to a sefer where letters were published, and they have a longer account that what I read previously in one of the R Twerski’s books. Maybe someone could look up the original and report? A fascinating topic. I agree that their description of 2nd critical letter from The Steipler does not fit well with R Twerski’s conclusion that he got The Steipler’s blessing. Maybe there is something missing in the re-telling.
modifiedMay 30, 2021 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #1978972🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
I said what i meant.
And i don’t understand your odd comment about the twerskis. You didn’t give a first name and the quote seemed off so i was clarifying who said it. Is letting you know you spelled his name wrong so unusual that you have to assume there is a split, ch”v? And you accuse me of interpreting for the worst…May 31, 2021 8:05 am at 8:05 am #1979001Avi KParticipant
Always, please cite where Rashba bans secular knowledge. Both Rabbenu Bachya and the Gra (on the third perek in Pirkei Avot) say that one cannot be called a sage unless one knows the secular fields. Rambam, at the beginning of the Guide, says that it is a prerequisite to Torah knowledge.
BTW, another Twersky, Rabbi Dr. Aaron Twersky, was the Dean of Hofstra Law School. Rav Hutner encouraged his talmidim to pursue advanced secular studies. Rav Aharon Soloveichik had a doctorate in law from NYU. Rav Prof. (Emeritus) Israel Kirzner is a well-known economist. Interestingly, his teacher in economics was Ludwig von mIses, who was an anti-religious Jew.May 31, 2021 8:11 am at 8:11 am #1979002Avi KParticipant
I just saw an interesting essay by Shais Rishon, also known by the pen name MaNishtana, who says that we will absorb horrible right-wing hashkafot by listening to Shapiro. Interesting.May 31, 2021 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #1979093
Avi K > please cite where Rashba bans secular knowledge
this was from a quote on sefarimblog by by Edward Reichman and Menachem Butler Feb 2021.
Here is the full footnote on Rashba. some of these may be online.
For an overview of the controversy, see David Berger, “Judaism and General Culture in Medieval and Early Modern Times,” in Cultures in Collision and Conversation: Essays in the Intellectual History of the Jews (Boston: Academic Studies Press, 2011), 21-116, esp. 70-78. See also Joseph Shatzmiller, “Between Abba Mari and Rashba: The Negotiations That Preceded the Ban of Barcelona (1303-1305),” Studies in the History of the Jewish People and the Land of Israel, vol. 3 (1973): 121-137 (Hebrew); David Horwitz, “The Role of Philosophy and Kabbalah in the Works of Rashba,” (unpublished MA thesis, Yeshiva University, 1986); David Horwitz, “Rashba’s Attitude Towards Science and Its Limits,” Torah u-Madda Journal, vol. 3 (1991-1992): 52-81; and Marc Saperstein, “The Conflict over the Ban on Philosophical Study, 1305: A Political Perspective,” in Leadership and Conflict: Tensions in Medieval and Early Modern Jewish History and Culture (Oxford: Littman Library, 2014), 94-112.May 31, 2021 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #1979095
Avi K. I agree positions of rishonim on science needs to be looked at carefully. Some of the criticism of old science are quite valid – often done with limited experiments. That would mean that these Rishonim understood scientific method and rejected results that might not have been valid.
there is a story going around about Vilna Gaon, who was persuaded to see an eye doctor. He asked the doctor – how many layers are in the eye. He responded – 3. Gaon refused to be treated by the doctor – because it is clear that the doctor read Galen, but did not look at the eye carefully himself. There is a similar story about medieval Muslim philosopher. So, the issue might have been known.May 31, 2021 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #1979178
wiki says that Rashba limited study of philosophy and science up to 30 y.o
Horowitz master thesis at YU refers to Minhat Kenaot, p 27-28, 32-37
Some of the argument is about inability of Aristotle to explain magnets and kameot (amulets), thus undermining philosophers claim to ultimate truth v. tradition.
It seems that Rashba mostly does not like speculative philosophy while being in favor of what is empirically true – medicine, astronomy, and kameas that were deemed experimentally useful (possibly via placebo effect?)June 3, 2021 12:56 pm at 12:56 pm #1980009efshar azoiParticipant
Ben shapiro learns daf yomi…just saying..
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