"Better Boys Than Girls??"

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  • #599257
    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    Someone told me the reason there is so many more girls than boys

    on the market is because generally there are better boys than girls on the market so they get grabbed up quickly and only the few special girls get grabbed up hence the many singles girls around.

    I was very disturbed by hearing such talk. Are there people who really feel that way??!

    #922815
    tro11
    Member

    Yes, it’s true.

    #922816
    Obaminator
    Member

    I heard that explanation in a shiur.

    #922817

    What qualities make a boy better…

    #922819
    Obaminator
    Member

    cjpun: So you propose Jewish girls marry shkotzim instead or just stay single?

    #922821
    Queen Bee
    Member

    cleverjewishpun: thumbs up

    #922822
    rebbitzen
    Member

    i heard the opposite..that the girls are much better, and i think its true! 🙂 many boys will just marry the first girl they get set up with, which is fine, but they don’t have this huge list of criteria..as long as she has good middos in general..looks..blah blah, and personalities match-they’re happy! that doesnt make the boys ‘better’. Girls look into the boys character a lot more, and are looking for really good guys which is hard to come by. so…as far as your concern about boys being better-i dont think it’s much of a concern!

    #922823
    Ofcourse
    Member

    YWN Ed and Mods: Is there any forum where the issues I brought up on this thead, that were not allowed, can be brought up?

    Trust me,they were NOT fabricated.

    No

    #922824
    tzvideer
    Member

    Bein Hasdorim

    You got the wording right, the meaning wrong, this is the true and correct version.

    There are a few ‘special’ girls (not quite sure why these are special), most of the rest are just plain ‘good’ girls. To some it came naturally, to some hereditary and to a select few others they actually worked on themselves. These are all good girls, good middos, good looking, good personality, good acting, good sisters, will be good mothers, just good, there is nothing wrong with them, but it is true an odd few girls get singled out for a particular ‘maalah or two’ that they have. Being that there are so many ‘good’, yes, really good girls out there sometimes makes them seem abundant and excuse the expression, a cheap commodity. These ‘good’ girls sometimes become the best wives possible.

    #922825

    @Obaminator

    No that is not my solution.

    My solution would be to level the playing field.

    Not every guy in yeshiva past age 20 belongs there.

    Have them go get some “real world” experience so they could bring something to the table (I.E. have some money saved so they could sit and learn for a year after marriage, or have a real degree that they can use for a decent paying job)

    That way not every lazy guy with a decent reputation is holding out for the same 4 girls on the market.

    Plus maybe leaving the yeshiva would force them to grow up a bit and realize that life ain’t easy and it ain’t cheap.

    My other solution is a bit to radical but sufice it to say, I believe that a female should maybe have some controll/input over her own future.

    @Queenbee; Thanks! I’m glad someone gets it!

    #922826
    MiddlePath
    Participant

    cleverjewishpun, two thumbs up!

    #922827

    make that 3 thumbs up 🙂

    #922828
    Ofcourse
    Member

    YWN Ed and Mods: Is there any forum where the issues I brought up on this thead, that were not allowed, can be brought up?

    Trust me,they were NOT fabricated.

    No

    So many young women, with the best of intentions, in such pain and nothing to do about it. So sad.

    Yes, it’s sad

    #922829

    Thank you both Middle and Mike

    However my solution will fall on deaf ears and we will perpetuate the same cycle of hopelessness for 70% of the ladies out there.

    The fact that you guys agree with me is proof enough that the rest of the readers on this board will ignore/ridicule it.

    And to the girls in parasha who are falling victim to the extortion or being ignored in favor of girls that will net them financial gain..there are guys out there for you! You might just need to be a little bit proactive or step outside your comfort zone!

    #922830
    Ofcourse
    Member

    clever, You might just need to be a little bit proactive or step outside your comfort zone!

    Narishkeiten! Im a Matchmaker very familiar with all crowds from Yeshivish to Modern Orthodox. Girls raised in a Bais Yaakov environment can do everything in their power, and then some, to gain interest of YU/Sterns type guys, and it’s a Bracha l’Vatoloh! Unless they want to go to the extent of giving up Shabbos and Kosher Ch”v, they have the same competition and are faced with the same disparity in numbers! Dream on!

    #922831

    When I got married I took the responsibility to go out and get a job to support our family…I did not ask my Bride to be if her father was going to support us…

    Feeding my family, paying their tuition and putting a roof over our heads is my responsibility, not my in-laws…

    Marriage is not a Business arrangement

    Women should have a stronger say and have an equal stake on who they choose ( be it a full time kollel guy, worker, or mix of both), they should feel like cattle passing potential buyers at an auction….

    #922832

    @of course

    Yes I’m sure guys deaing with a shadchan who have a YU backround are looking for girls that will give up shabbous and kashrut!

    That to me sounds ridiculous

    #922833
    Ofcourse
    Member

    mikehall12382, whether the girls marry learners, learner/earners or working guys, the disparity in numbers exists, creating supply and demand issues, bringing swellheadedness into the picture. Irrelevant!

    swellheadedness aka: arrogance, assurance, boastfulness, boasting, bragging, conceit, conceitedness, egocentricity, egomania, gasconade, haughtiness, insolence, megalomania, narcissism, ostentation, overconfidence, preoccupation with self, presumption, pride, self-absorption, self-admiration, self-confidence, self-importance, self-interest, self-love, self-possession, self-regard, self-worship, selfishness, superiority, swellheadedness , vainglory, vanity, vaunting

    #922834
    adorable
    Participant

    so are there more good girls or good guys? im confused. I think there are more good girls than good guys. anyhow where is the scale that you are all measuring the guys and girls by? if there is a bad boy and a bad girl thats a perfect shidduch so why are they bad? because hes not learning all day? that makes someone bad? and because she likes to dress in style and likes to run around shopping with her friends all day????????

    #922835
    mytake
    Member

    Here’s something I posted on a similar thread:

    TweetTweet, It all depends on how you define a good boy/girl. Do you mean Middos Tovos? Do you mean successful careergirls and top learners? Do you mean “Ivy League” Seminaries and Yeshivos?

    When I think of a good girl or boy, I think of someone with beautiful middos, priorities set straight, listens to and respects Daas Torah and someone who is concerned with making Hashem proud.

    According to my definition of the terms “good boy/girl”, I would have to disagree with your date. It’s hard to find, period. This goes for the boys AND the girls.

    #922837
    Quill
    Member

    @cleverjewishpun

    “Not every guy in yeshiva past age 20 belongs there.

    Have them go get some “real world” experience so they could bring something to the table (I.E. have some money saved so they could sit and learn for a year after marriage, or have a real degree that they can use for a decent paying job)

    That way not every lazy guy with a decent reputation is holding out for the same 4 girls on the market.

    Plus maybe leaving the yeshiva would force them to grow up a bit and realize that life ain’t easy and it ain’t cheap.”

    Actually, probably 99% of young 20-year-olds DO belong in yeshiva. What DOESN’T belong are alot of these places that call themselves “yeshivos.”

    “Real world experience” – “Ein leHakadosh Baruch Hu elah daled amos shel halacha” -the only thing “real” in this world is our relationship with hashem, which is achieved through learning how to truely believe in Him, learning musar and (for men) learning gemara be’iyun – reconnecting the connection we had at Har Sinai. These are not things you learn on “the street” or in “the real world” and these are not things one acquiress overnight, these are things one must “learn” how to acquire and spend his lifetime perfecting.

    Quill

    #922838
    MiddlePath
    Participant

    Quill, I believe that’s half of it. Yes, half of what’s real in our world is our relationship with G-d (bain adam l’makom). The other half is our relationship with people (bain adam l’chaveiro). Most people in our generation are not hermits, and deal with others on a daily basis. And yes, the Torah teaches us how to properly deal with people, so we do need that knowledge, and we should start learning it at a young age. But we also need to put it into practice. That means going into “the real world” when necessary, like working or going to school for a profession, and being a role model of how to live as a moral, caring, considerate person, and sanctifying G-d’s name through that. So a young adult who has left yeshiva to pursue a career has the opportunity to be that role model, and put all his learning into practice. After all, that is our purpose.

    #922839
    Ofcourse
    Member

    MiddlePath, beautifully stated!

    How do we multiply the many different types of “good guys” to satisfy the needs of the many more (quantity-wise) “good girls”?

    #922840
    MiddlePath
    Participant

    Thanks, Ofcourse. I personally feel that it all comes down to responsibility and care. In marriage, you are responsible and care for your spouse. And that amount of responsibility is difficult to attain from just sitting all day in a bais midrash, or even a college classroom, where you only need to care for and be responsible for yourself. Generally, boys don’t have that care and sense of responsibility for others the way girls have it. So, maybe we can help the boys become more like that by somehow implementing a system in yeshivos where boys are somehow tuned into being responsible for others. There are already positions for students to become more responsible, such as a dorm counselor, waiter, etc. Perhaps there should be some sort of position of responsibility for EVERYONE in the yeshiva. And more often than not, the young adults who go to college, whether full time or at night, or have jobs, are generally more responsible anyway.

    I don’t see this ever happening, but I think it would be a good way to get boys more prepared more marriage.

    #922841
    adorable
    Participant

    In that way boys might have a harder adjustment to marriage but there is a lot that the girls have to adjust too. just because they are natural “givers” doesnt make it easy for them. Its an adjustment whichever way you slice it.

    #922843
    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    adorable; Gut Gezugt! I know a nice few girls who couldn’t hack being married, quite frankly I don’t think they’re really mentally prepared for it.

    I know they go to Sem, and kallah classes,

    but I feel there needs to be more these days to prepare young women and men for marriage.,

    1)it’s responsibilities,

    2)how to keep Shalom Bayis,

    3)How to raise and be Mechanech Children, and mostly number

    4)How to deal with meddling In Laws, or parents.

    #922844
    superstar
    Member

    It’s quite the opposite: there are so many amazing girls out there but not enough decent guys, therefore there are extra girls and no guys. Also, some guys just dont want to get married, while most girls do want to start a family already.

    I hate to generalize, but in my humble opinion it’s the truth.

    #922845
    shein
    Member

    It’s comparatively much much easier to be a good girl than to be a good guy. (Think of how little it takes to be a good girl whereas how much it takes to be a good guy.) Being a good guy is so much harder than being a good girl, therefore the good guys end up getting the great girls — since a great girl is the equivalent to being a good guy, while the regular guys get good girls — since that is their equivalent, and the mediocre guys get the average girls — since that is their equivalent.

    #922846
    computer777
    Member

    Boys are better than girls. Girls are better than boys. Childish!!

    #922847
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Agreed. Sheesh…

    #922848
    WIY
    Member

    Shein

    “and the mediocre guys get the average girls — since that is their equivalent.”

    Im a guy but I still sympathize with the girls and think its sad that some very good girls who may not be spectacular in any way(what you call mediocre) will have to settle for guys who are way below them as a person as far as spirituality and middos are concerned.

    On the other hand I have been hearing that the quality of the girls is dropping big time so maybe the OP is correct after all. I really dont know.

    #922849
    shein
    Member

    “I have been hearing that the quality of the girls is dropping big time”

    You better marry quick, before the quality drops even further, precipitously so.

    #922850
    Whiteberry
    Member

    Can someone articulate what it means to be a “good boy” or a “good girl”?

    Can the one who posited that it is harder to be a good boy than a good girl, please explain that statement?

    #922851
    interjection
    Participant

    It’s what people say when they know they’re not working hard enough to beat their yetzer hara.

    Neither gender has it harder. Neither gender has it easier.

    #922852
    WIY
    Member

    Interjection

    Not true at all. Boys have more mitzvos and obligations. We have a chiyuv to learn Torah and to be a good boy a boy has to excell at his mitzvos as well as his learning at the same time not give in to all the yetzer horas that pull at us. A girl has to dress and act w tznius and also not be into movies. Women do not have the yetzer hora boys have for the opposite gender. You will never understand even if I wrote you 10 pages worth. The yetzer works much harder on a boy in all areas and especially in that as well as in the area of bittul Torah. It is brought down in sefarim that girls are born on a higher level or more perfected level and therefore are closer to Hashem and more spiritual by nature also girls usually dont have an ego problem as many men do which makes it difficult to submit to another and do what someone else (meaning Hashem) tells us.

    One example of the differences between boys and girls is that it is very easy for many girls to Daven with kavannah and emotion and to even cry by Davening and feel close to Hashem (unless they did a whole bunch of things which puts up a blockage.) For men such a thing takes a LOT of work to be able to get emotional and feel Davening.

    Ok I may be all over the place here and not so coherent but bottom line it really is a lot harder to be a good boy. Im not saying there arent challenges for girls. Im sure there are, but since less is obligated of you the challenge must be less and the Yetzer hora doesnt have that much to bug girls about. If a girl doesnt actively look for trouble trouble wont usually find her. By a boy the yetzer hora is constantly harassing us to do or not do various things.

    #922853
    Whiteberry
    Member

    Interjection, I should have clarified my question, even though I thought it obvious due to the subject nature of this thread.

    Please define “good boy” and “good girls” as it relates to shidduchim and then explain why it is harder to qualify as good as it relates to shidduchim for a boy, then for a girl.

    Before I comment on what you wrote, I want to be sure your answer remains the same in light of this info.

    As a general comment, I think you are overstating the yetzer hara faced by “boys” and understating the yetzer hara faced by girls. You replied to someone “you will never understand what boys face” yet you presume to understand what girls face and how simple it is for them to overcome. I think that is rather presumptous, but can’t disagree with how you feel, if that is how you feel.

    #922854
    OneOfMany
    Participant

    WIY: Really now? Why don’t you write ten pages on female motivation, and then try commenting again, eh?

    #922855
    iced
    Member

    One (of many) examples is that for a boy to be considered good (for shidduchim, etc.) he is expected to rise early for minyan, spend a long day in Yeshiva, learn Torah well and be kind. A girl doesn’t share the same daily, excruciating and demanding, schedule.

    #922856
    WIY
    Member

    Oom

    What do you mean about female motivation?

    #922857
    Toi
    Participant

    men have more chiyuvim because they have it tougher. women have their issues and yetzerharas, but a woman would freak if she knew what was flying in a mans head.

    #922858

    iced: “One (of many) examples is that for a boy to be considered good (for shidduchim, etc.) he is expected to rise early for minyan, spend a long day in Yeshiva, learn Torah well and be kind. A girl doesn’t share the same daily, excruciating and demanding, schedule.”

    Really now…what do you call having to have a job, get a college degree, maintain a good figure/face all while raising children, cooking, cleaning and being a loving wife…?

    No one has it easier. Game over.

    #922859
    Song of Blessing
    Participant

    Better? Harder? Which world do u all live in?

    Every person has their own nisyonos and each deals with it in their own unique way.

    In my opinion the status of a “good boy” or “good girl” in any person looking for a shidduch is someone who works on themselves and generally fights rather than gives into their yetzer hara. For a shidduch good is only as good as you are.

    The whole chinuch system/shidduch scene and marriage scene is in the pits more than ever now. Stereotyping doesn’t work any more. All we need is moshiach!

    #922860
    interjection
    Participant

    “In my opinion the status of a “good boy” or “good girl” in any person looking for a shidduch is someone who works on themselves and generally fights rather than gives into their yetzer hara. For a shidduch good is only as good as you are.”

    Beautifully stated.

    #922861
    superstar
    Member

    I know this is kinda an old thread but I just had to post a reply.

    First of all, WIY, why do you assume all girls are emotional and cry during davening and therefore connect more easily to Hashem? Also, girls have tons of tznius issues that boys would not even dream of.

    Toi, you scare me, but who says a women does not have those crazy things flying through her head too?

    #922862

    boys also have nisyanos

    #922863
    superstar
    Member

    Right I know, but i just wanted to prove to WIY and Toi that it’s not only boys.

    #922864
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    This entire thread is based on a false premise.

    #922865
    Toi
    Participant

    dy- explain

    super- nothing has been proved, or even suggested. no guy on here didnt understand what i mean. thats itself should suffice.

    #922866
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    This entire thread is based on a false premise.

    This entire thread is based on a false premise.

    The false premise is that the good girls are “grabbing up” more than one guy.

    #922867

    For every boy that get engaged, there is a girl getting engaged too. so i dont know how one can be “grabbed” quicker then the other, could just be there are more girls in shidduchim, hence there are more SINGLE girls, but there aren’t any less ENGAGED/MARRIED- kinda has to be equal, u know 1 to 1.

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