September 4, 2022 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #2121093
My neighbor has bird feeders, and it drives my wife crazy.
Any idea how to get rid of it?
Already checked, the city allows it.September 4, 2022 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #2121130🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
close the shadesSeptember 4, 2022 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #2121132ujmParticipant
How can you possibly get rid of something another person is doing that is permitted?September 4, 2022 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #2121133
get rid of bird feeders or of crazy wife?
check, or test, whether ultrasound anti-mice devices work also on birds. Young kids are able to hear the ultrasound. (Malls sometimes put annoying sound to get rid of teenagers). So, depending on the wife’s age, might work on her also.September 4, 2022 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #2121139☕️coffee addictParticipant
That’s not nice, he wants to help his wife and you’re making fun of her?September 4, 2022 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #2121148
okok, indeed, it is a fair question, as the husband needs to provide for the wife, she can claim that the place with unbearable sounds is unlivable, and he is indeed chayav to fix it. A simple, sad, way some towns did this – use chemicals to kill the bugs and then there will be no birds.
Seriously, try noise-canceling headphones. There are different types. See if they will help.September 4, 2022 9:50 pm at 9:50 pm #2121152
Earplugs. White noise machine. Loud music.September 4, 2022 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #2121155
Bird feeders are a great option if done with care and in the right locations. Only use “shell free” seeds to minimize the mess under the feeders. Also use “squirrel proof” feeders (Yankee flipper or Droll are the best and available on Amazon). Done wrong, they attract vermin and leave a mess around the feeder, not always on the same property if houses are closes together. Otherwise, great entertainment and visual treat year-round if you live in the right area.September 4, 2022 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #2121159AviraDeArahParticipant
Ym, maybe your neighbor doesn’t have children, or has had serious problems with them…some people take solace in feeding animals. Pity them; rav yaakov yosef Herman (all for the boss) used to say “when there’s rachmanun you don’t need savlanus”September 5, 2022 11:05 am at 11:05 am #2121207
Send you wife to see a frum therapist or on a trip on Spirit Airlines don’t send her to the hospital where the wait times are longSeptember 5, 2022 11:05 am at 11:05 am #2121210
My brother in law the genius suggested I cite שולחן ערוך. Took a look, and the the level of scholarship is consistent with past experience.
Took a long walk, decided that my wife is an adult, and she can work it out with her neighbor herself.September 5, 2022 11:19 am at 11:19 am #2121291
what type of birds???
raptors? vultures? crows?
or song birds and hummingbirds?September 5, 2022 11:21 am at 11:21 am #2121327ujmParticipant
Is the bird feeding neighbor a woman?September 5, 2022 11:21 am at 11:21 am #2121320yaakov doeParticipant
My next door neighbor has one and it never bothered me at all. What’s the problem with a bird feeder?
It’s not like throwing bread on the ground to feed pigeons and rats.September 5, 2022 11:28 am at 11:28 am #2121226
Let’s reverse this and take an opportunity to contemplate whether we ever fed the birds but annoyed people, or more generally did something what we thought is a groise mitzvah, while not being sensitive to others. R Avigdor Miller mentions walking early morning for slichos, slamming the door, reminding a nearby widow that her husband used to go… R Salanter – doing long divrei Torah preventing servants from having shabbos restSeptember 5, 2022 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #2121354
> decided that my wife is an adult, and she can work it out with her neighbor herself.
so, the question is who needs to deal with the issue? Here are arguments that husband should:
Housing is mentioned as husband’s obligations (source: Ketubot). Rambam’s Hilchos Ishut ch 12-13. 13:5 says that he needs to provide according to his wealth. So, if she is used to live in a quiet house and he can afford such, one would think she can insist on that. But if he can’t afford it (which is quite possible with current prices), then he does not have to. Note here that for kids only minimal necessary things need to be provided, does not have to be according to his wealth.
Rambam also says to provide the wife appropriate clothing to visit her father, wedding, funerals, but not more than 1-2 times a month! So, maybe her house needs to be livable then!
13:15 Both spouses can object to bad neighbors and force a move. (can we call a bird feeder a bad neighbor because he is not considerate of others?) Also, both can object to in-laws or anyone visiting.
13:18 Husband can not force move from pleasant to unpleasant surroundings (and other way around!) So, definitely, one can not move to the bird feeder!
Also, husband is obligated to pay for long-term medical care. So, it is just a smart idea to deal with the issues before the wife goes completely bezerk!September 5, 2022 12:29 pm at 12:29 pm #2121370AviraDeArahParticipant
AAQ, being next to a bird feeder is not an “unpleasant surrounding” in halacha…not by any stretchSeptember 5, 2022 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #2121409
having a workshop in a courtyard is a problem. Neighbors can not object to a teacher who has noisy children coming, but can object to other types of noise and smell. How is bird feeder different if it causes noise or other artifacts? Would be the same for a noisy pet.September 5, 2022 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #2121427
Why not move to Baltimore and buy a huge lot so far from neighbors that it won’t matter?September 5, 2022 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #2121440
> Why not move to Baltimore and buy a huge lot
From what I know of Baltimore, you also have to be at the gun shot distance from your neighbor at least. Maybe, a better idea is to move to Chicago, and then your wife will forget about bird feeders and worry about other crimes.September 5, 2022 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #2121453hujuParticipant
Step one with neighbor problems: ask your neighbor nicely for relief.September 5, 2022 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #2121479
huju + 1. Peshara before din. Maybe offer to relocate the bird feeder further away and help doing it.September 5, 2022 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #2121482
AAQ is just plain nasty and is showing their true colors in this entire line of postings.September 5, 2022 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #2121485
Step one, act like an adult.
Step two, act like an adultSeptember 5, 2022 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #2121491
Wife just wants it down, doesnt matter where it is.
Me and the neighbors husband have a seder, seems my wife did call and it didnt go well. They arent close to begin with, and I guess it sounded more like a demand than a request.
We menfolk agreed to keep our heads down and let it blow over.September 5, 2022 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #2121496🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
there must be more to the story because I can’t fathom why it would be any of your wife’s businessSeptember 5, 2022 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #2121532
take them to din Torah, even if the neighbors are not Jewish, it can work.
or if their property is big, ask them to locate the feeder at the other end and see if that too is annoying.September 6, 2022 1:01 am at 1:01 am #2121540
Ok, so you are haver with the neighbor. Sit down together and learn a couple of sugyot in Bava Basra and then decide:
1) when two houses are across each other and one roof is higher and provides a view of the lower one. The lower one can force the other one to build a fence to prevent looking! That is, it is up to the one who is a mazik to fix the problem.
2) what kind of noises can neighbors in a courtyard object to?September 6, 2022 7:52 am at 7:52 am #2121594
Life is full of petty annoyances, slow drivers in the passing lane, city traffic, internet trolls, irrtating people, neighbors with bird feeders, face masks etc.
Bottom line act like an adult and deal with it.September 6, 2022 9:00 am at 9:00 am #2121634
We should be dan le kaf zechus, and assume that the person (the bird feeder) about whom the complaint pertain, was throwing out newly killed and/or partially buchered animals to feed the neighborhood vultures. In that case one would need ask Beis Din for permission to either sue or file a criminal or health law complaint.September 6, 2022 10:14 am at 10:14 am #2121660
@ akuperma Yeah, that was the הלכה my genius of a brother in law attempted to convince me was a winning argument to refer the matter to בית דין. Told him to head back to Kollel before someone took attendance and docked his pay.
My own conclusion is, there is nothing in the local ordinances about bird feeders and thankfully we don’t have an HSA.. In הלכה outside of a common courtyard the threshold for telling someone what they can do on their own property is pretty high.
That leaves asking very nicely, and if we get no for an answer, it’s Elul so just need to work on ourselves to be better neighbors and love them even if they do things that bother us.September 6, 2022 11:01 am at 11:01 am #2121673
ok, interesting, so halochos of courtyards do not apply to stam neighbors who do not share a yard?
you may also look at Ketubos 60 that discusses how children can be affected .. these are mostly food, but it starts with a mill – whether it is sounds, vibration, or pollution. Thinking on a good side, maybe children will be good in music.September 6, 2022 11:02 am at 11:02 am #2121682☕️coffee addictParticipant
“it’s Elul so just need to work on ourselves to be better neighbors and love them even if they do things that bother us.”
👍👏September 6, 2022 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #2121703
ymribiat: Assuming the person collecting roadkill or stray cats to feed the local vultures is a Yid , it would still be a shailoh whether one can attempt to sic the cops on themSeptember 6, 2022 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #2121732
@ akuperma The bird feeder attracts sparrows, cardinals, and blue jays.
And if I tried reporting the neighbors to the police for attracting ravens, I’d have more noise and צרות from BLM than the birds.September 6, 2022 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #2121792yaakov doeParticipant
akuperma, do you have vultures in your neighborhood? Bird feeders have seeds and in the winter some include suet which is some kind of animal fat. Although they are birds, I don’t think vultures are attracted to bird feeders.September 6, 2022 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #2121795jackkParticipant
“you may also look at Ketubos 60 that discusses how children can be affected .. these are mostly food, but it starts with a mill – whether it is sounds, vibration, or pollution. “.
I am glad that you left off what the Gemara is referring to. Pas nisht for the CR.
That you even try to explain the Gemara about windmills with sounds, vibration or pollution is very difficult. Because the Gemara is specifying a windmill and only a windmill. And the next line in the Gemara is about the earth.
Also, this Gemara has nothing to do with this topic. So why did you bring it in ?
Why are you so sure about your understanding of the Gemara that you will say – “Thinking on a good side, maybe children will be good in music.” ?
Don’t jump to conclusions from a Gemara that we don’t understand.
We don’t understand the Gemara before it about the foods that stop/make cloudy mother’s milk either.
I have been following Syags discussion with you about Kollel and I would have added my support to her but she was doing a terrific job of debating you.
I am sure that if she learnt daf yomi and saw what you wrote , she would have debated you here also.
The Jewish People need the Kollel community. All of them. Every single one. And Halevai Ken Yirbu.
They are the source of life of the entire universe. At the Adirei Hatorah event we got a glimpse of the enormous power of the people who are sustaining the world.
There was the story of the Kollel wife who sent her kids to sleep early friday night so that they won’t see them eat only sardines for the Seudah on Shabbos. Mi K’amcha Yisroel.
When Reb Aharon started Lakewood, he was asked by a government official what the purpose of the Lakewood Yeshiva is. Someone started to write that it is about making Rabbis. Reb Aharon told him to change it. It is solely about Torah Lishmah.
The Kollel life is for everyone . All the Gedolim have said that. It is not for a select few. It is not a result of losing 6,000,000.
Klal Yisroel always had people learning full time. There always was Shevet Levi and Yissachar.
And there always were Jews willing to sacrifice every comfort on this world for the next world.September 6, 2022 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #2121819
Not whether Kollel is for everyone or even most people.
Not whether we decide we are so much frummer than דורות הראשונים that we will decide that its more practical to make a בן סורר ומורה than a kosher ערוב.
Not whether Trump is the Second Coming or whether with all of derivitative garbage being produced there is even such a thing as Jewish music.
Feeders.September 6, 2022 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #2121829
Ymribat: Has your wife considered buying a cat?? Alternatively, mount a large fake owl on the corner of your roof closest to the bird feeder.September 6, 2022 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #2121830jackkParticipant
I was responding to AAQ who went completely off topic. Did you not notice that?
Regarding the Bird Feeder, shalom bayis and shalom shchenim, Hashem should guide you to a peaceful solution.September 6, 2022 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #2121977
a quick response to jackk, pardon the bird feeders,
I am not against learners, I am against using questionable financial means to achieve that. Not only we always had learners, we always had them working together with others. Babylonian yeshivas had 2 sedorim during the year for most people, then taking the rest of the year to review what they learned. People managed: one great amora (r Yaakov, I think) sent his son for the whole year and stayed home working the fields. After a year, he examined the boy and told him to stay working and went to learn full-time himself. We are no way richer, so we should surely have more full-time ehricher learners than we had during Gemora time or even in Volozhin (400 kids). pls respond in the other thread, no need to annoy Ymribat more than the bvord feeders.September 7, 2022 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #2122246ParticipantParticipant
Get a rat feeder, and maybe after a couple of days your neighbor will ask if both neighbors get rid of their respective feeder.September 7, 2022 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #2122326
How could anyone continue to do what annoys someone elseSeptember 7, 2022 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #2122328
“How could anyone continue to do what annoys someone else?”
Ask R’ Yosef or any of our other ehrliche trollsSeptember 8, 2022 9:09 am at 9:09 am #2122406RedlegParticipant
A couple of notes:
1. The Gemora in Ketubot is not talking about a windmill. It is a flour mill operated by a donkey or an ox walking around in a circle to turn the upper millstone and the annoying sound is the mill stones grinding against each other.
2. If you live in Monsey, you need to be careful where you put the bird feeder as it may also attract bears.September 8, 2022 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #2122651
“How could anyone continue to do what annoys someone else?”
This sounds like an open invitation to discuss all of the ways that I irritate others.
“If you live in Monsey, you need to be careful where you put the bird feeder as it may also attract bears.”
Bears are omnivores. Still, the image of Yogi passing all of overflowing dumpsters to dine on birdseed is amusing.September 8, 2022 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #2122669ParticipantParticipant
You apparently don’t know what omnivore means.September 8, 2022 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #2122683
Learn to pronounce
an animal or person that eats food of both plant and animal origin.”
“Bears are omnivores that have relatively unspecialized digestive systems similar to those of carnivores. The primary difference is that bears have an elongated digestive tract, an adaptation that allows bears more efficient digestion of vegetation than other carnivores (Herrero 1985).Sep 18, 2019”September 8, 2022 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #2122695
Just because something is allowed by din goyim does not mean it is allowed by Torah… like not oppressing your fellow.
How can the woman sleep at night knowing that the feeder is upsetting her neighbor?September 8, 2022 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #2122756
How can the woman sleep at night knowing that the feeder is upsetting her neighbor?
Easy. The same way the owner of the feeder somehow has to learn to live nextdoor to some bird-hater. Alternatively, take an Ambien and watch one of the early vintage Woody Woodpecker cartoons that are now available on Disney streaming channel.
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