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truth be told –
“Was R. Roth opposed to making an eiev in BP? Yes, no one can deny this. Did he refuse to sign on the same page as the others? Yes, he wrote his own letter. Either way, in regards to all other issues, only Satmerers llisten to him. Both Satmer Rebbes strongly oppose the eirev. So to who exactly is his psak applicible for? His chasidim and talmidim. Not a large amount.
How many people follow R Hershkowitzs psakim?
It’s pick a your heter deal”
This is hearsay. Rav Roth is a major supporter of the current Brooklyn eruvin. He wrote his own letter as did almost all the rabbanim. He did join the kol korei together with all the rabbanim.
Only Satmerer listen to him? He has more shilos daily than all rabbanim in Boro Park combined. He has many shilos from Flatbush residents.
How many people follow Rav Heskowitz? I know rabbanim in Flatbush who ask him shilos. Many rabbanim in Boro Park and Williamsburg ask him shilos. He simply is in a different league to those who know him.
Feif Un –
“Anumber of years ago, while I was in yeshiva, there was a letter printed against the eruv, stating that using it is chilul Shabbos d’Oraysa. It was signed by R’ Pam zt”l, R’ Dovid Cohen, R’ Aharon Schechter, R’ Shmuel Berenbaum, and others.”
The only posek on this list, Rav Dovid Cohen is not opposed to an eruv.
truth be told –
“Why both Satmer Rebbes oppose it is not my point. My point is how so many people, who are not his chasidim or mispallim, may rely on his psak. The Satmerers follow their Rebbe. This is kulah shopping in so great an area as chillul Shabbos. Same with reb Fischel. Very sad”
I asked a chasidishe Rav who had ????? by R Moshe Zt”l a
???? re a/c or time clock 2 areas where R Moshe Zt”l was Machmir. Here is the gist of his answer “according to my logic it should not be a problem but R Moshe Zt”l would asser”
As exactly his response should be.
As exactly people’s response about the eruv is not.
I don’t live in Brooklyn darling. The fact you need to call me dishonest says something about how you argue.
The fact is he is the greatest posek alive in America today. No posek in America is even in his league.
Okaaaaay. Now I really take you seriously.
david1999:
This is hearsay. Rav Roth is a major supporter of the current Brooklyn eruvin. He wrote his own letter as did almost all the rabbanim. He did join the kol korei together with all the rabbanim.
Please provide the “kol korei”. He only wrote his own letter, refusing to sign with the others. Its hearsay to say otherwise.
Only Satmerer listen to him? He has more shilos daily than all rabbanim in Boro Park combined. He has many shilos from Flatbush residents.
How many people follow Rav Heskowitz? I know rabbanim in Flatbush who ask him shilos. Many rabbanim in Boro Park and Williamsburg ask him shilos. He simply is in a different league to those who know him.
david1999:
justs as a matter of fact more rabunim dont hold of using the internet for this kinda stuff then dont hold from the bp eiruv. N if u use internet (same as i..) dont become here a whole machmer when most rabunim here hold from the eiruv
“proudly using the eiruv in bp and flatbush n willi according the d psak from my local ruv”
When my neighbor the ???? ????? told me Here is the gist of his answer “according to my logic it should not be a problem but R Moshe Zt”l would asser” he meant “And you who are not a talmid dont have a problem”
Does anybody have lase weeks Hamodia?
There was a story there about Reb Moshe asking Reb Tuvia to look up the opinions of the ????? ???????? about an issue, not that he was bound by their opinion just to check on his thinking. If they id not refute his proofs then he had no problem going against their Psak. I hope that the story is accurate.
I doubt the distance between Reb Yecheskel, Reb Chaim L K Shlita & Ybclc Reb Moshe Zt’ll is greater than between Reb Moshe & the ??”? ???? ??? ??? etc
oh_yeah:
What a great comparison! Chillul Shabbos and internet use with a filter.
No, no. The first is just that, chilul Shabbos. The second is at most not recomended
popa_bar_abba –
I don’t think this is a “ask your rav” issue.
I really think that nobody should be using this eruv.
If this was a machlokes among equals, or even among almost equals, it would be one thing.
If Rav Moshe’s psak was unsure, and just being machmir, that would be one thing.
popa_bar_abba –
Rav Roth is one of the most well known and respected poskim in America. The fact is he has more sheilos than all the poskim in Flatbush combined and those from Boro Park as well. There is no posek in America who has anywhere near the amount of sheilos as he does.
Oh now I understand. Because you believe that this machlokas is different it must be different.
What a great tone of debate.
“Please provide the “kol korei”. He only wrote his own letter, refusing to sign with the others. Its hearsay to say otherwise.”
truth be told –
David –
Where do you believe the Flatbush Eiruv falls into in this discussion? Would you put it into the same status as the B.P. Eiruv?
popa_bar_abba –
“What a great tone of debate.”
If you don’t live in Brooklyn, and don’t know who are the most important poskim in our neighborhood, stay out of the debate.
popa_bar_abba –
“What a great tone of debate.”
If you don’t live in Brooklyn, and don’t know who are the most important poskim in our neighborhood, stay out of the debate.
And an even better response.
truth be told –
“No, no. The first is just that, chilul Shabbos. The second is at most not recomended”
There are more reasons to allow our eruvin than there are for much of the meat that you eat today.
It seems to me the original question was is there a Boro Park backup eruv or not,and if not, can people carry outside of the eruv which they are now doing.
popa_bar_abba –
“And an even better response.”
Why so stingy with words? I would like you to display your mastery of the subject.
His Royal Highness –
“Where do you believe the Flatbush Eiruv falls into in this discussion? Would you put it into the same status as the B.P. Eiruv?”
Flatbush is also encompassed by mechitzos. Why should it be different?
tumill –
“It seems to me the original question was is there a Boro Park backup eruv or not,and if not, can people carry outside of the eruv which they are now doing.”
David –
For decades before the current B.P. and Flatbush eiruven were established (in the early 2000’s), there was a Flatbush Eiruv maintained by the Young Israel crowd. Why was that universally rejected by the heimishe (Litvish/Chasidish) community? Why was that eiruv worse than the current eiruv?
david1999
Member
Is there a Back-up eruv in Boro Park that one can use b’deeved?
His Royal Highness:
“For decades before the current B.P. and Flatbush eiruven were established (in the early 2000’s), there was a Flatbush Eiruv maintained by the Young Israel crowd. Why was that universally rejected by the heimishe (Litvish/Chasidish) community? Why was that eiruv worse than the current eiruv?”
Because of the huge machlokas that ensued. The current eruv is based on the fact that Brooklyn is encompassed by mechitzos. The current eruvin are built with many more chumros. They are also omed merubeh eruvin.
“Because of the huge machlokas that ensued.”
David:
And the current one did not entail huge machlokas?
David:
And why did it take until the 2000’s to establish kosher eiruven in B.P. and Flatbush? What prevented them from being properly built 40 years earlier? Were the gedolim of the previous generation an impediment to it?
david1999:
First you claim he gets the most questions in BP. Doesn’t work.
So you claim he even gets questions from Lakewood, and that he’s the most asked posek in America. Don’t work either.
truth be told –
“No, no. The first is just that, chilul Shabbos. The second is at most not recomended”
There are more reasons to allow our eruvin than there are for much of the meat that you eat today.
His Royal Highness –
“And the current one did not entail huge machlokas?”
The current Boro Park eruv was backed by many and important poskim. The previous eruv was not.
His Royal Highness –
“And why did it take until the 2000’s to establish kosher eiruven in B.P. and Flatbush? What prevented them from being properly built 40 years earlier? Were the gedolim of the previous generation an impediment to it?”
truth be told –
“First you claim he gets the most questions in BP. Doesn’t work.
So you claim he even gets questions from Lakewood, and that he’s the most asked posek in America. Don’t work either.
truth be told –
I would love you to display your knowledge of the subject. Please, it would be an honor to get into lengthy debates with you. That is if you have anything to add to this conversation.
What a great argument. Wonderful.
Thats why Rav Roth didn’t want it.
Thats why Rav Ahron, the Satmer Rebbe from KJ spoke out against it. Thats why the other Satmer Rebbe opposes it. On and on
There are many factors why an eruv was not erected previously, but this is for another time. I did not say that they were not built properly, only that they are better today.
Why is this “for another time”? I would like to know. What is difficult in explaining why it took until after 2000 to properly build it. Were the doros that brought up mishpochos for the previous 40+ years in B.P. and Flatbush not entitled to benefit from an eiruv. If it were always possible, why was it not previously done?
Was Rav Moshe enabling these “askanim” with his psak or did he fall for their ruse?
tbt – Which sect needed points?
Get to the point! is there a Boro Park backup- evev or not, or is it just one big bubba meisa?
Interesting discussion/debate/argument (not sure the appropriate word) here. Not a single protaganist in the machlokes even sees it important to get involved. They issued a psak and are comfortable with it, despite the coffee room geonim, tzadikim and poskim who disagree with it.
Let me add. Sociologists.
Let me add. Sociologists.
Get to the point! is there a Boro Park backup- evev or not, or is it just one big bubba meisa?
If there is an Eruv, which means that the Rabbonim behind it are credible & competent ???? ????? & the Askanim behind it are credible ???? ??? than there is a Backup Eruv
let me repeat my question
If Reb Moshe Z’tl was not bound by ????? ??????? then why are Rav Roth, Rav Katz, Rav Miller, Rav Hager et al bound by Reb Moshe Zt”l ?
What I find interesting is that while in Boro Park you will find a sizable contigent of people, approximately 25% of the neighborhood, holding of the eruv and you’ll see people pushing strollers on Shabbos, in Flatbush on the other hand the eruv is not held of by the vast vast majority and rarely will you see a stroller being pushed on Shabbos. And the very few in Flatbush who do hold of it are generally only the more modern crowd that probably also held of the old eruv that I think was the one Reb Moshe paskened against.
I never quite understood why this discrepancy between Flatbush and Boro Park. Any ideas anyone?
truth be told –
“What a great argument. Wonderful.”
Since it seems to bother you so much, that there are eruvin in Brooklyn, lets here what are your arguments against it. There is no doubt in my mind that you have nothing to add, and that your opinion does not amount to much halachic knowledge.
truth be told –
Thats why Rav Roth didn’t want it.
Thats why Rav Ahron, the Satmer Rebbe from KJ spoke out against it. Thats why the other Satmer Rebbe opposes it. On and on”
His Royal Highness –
“Why is this “for another time”? I would like to know. What is difficult in explaining why it took until after 2000 to properly build it. Were the doros that brought up mishpochos for the previous 40+ years in B.P. and Flatbush not entitled to benefit from an eiruv. If it were always possible, why was it not previously done?”
Because I would need to name names, and it would be censored. Yes everyone is entitled to an eruv if their rav allows for one. Alas that is not to be in NY, since there are people who formed a group called hilchos issurei eruvin. For starters see to whom this teshuvah, Igros Moshe, O.C. 5:28 is written to.
“Was Rav Moshe enabling these “askanim” with his psak or did he fall for their ruse?”
tumill –
“Get to the point! is there a Boro Park backup- evev or not, or is it just one big bubba meisa?”
Yes there is, but it’s only used in case the main one becomes possel. I reiterate, there are local eruvin (on the blocks that were mentioned in this post), but you would need to ask the local people for more information.
Clark Kent –
“What I find interesting is that while in Boro Park you will find a sizable contigent of people, approximately 25% of the neighborhood, holding of the eruv and you’ll see people pushing strollers on Shabbos, in Flatbush on the other hand the eruv is not held of by the vast vast majority and rarely will you see a stroller being pushed on Shabbos. And the very few in Flatbush who do hold of it are generally only the more modern crowd that probably also held of the old eruv that I think was the one Reb Moshe paskened against.
I never quite understood why this discrepancy between Flatbush and Boro Park. Any ideas anyone?”
david1999:
“It was used as a sociological weapon by the Zalonim against the Aharonim.”
How can that be if both Rebbes oppose the eruv?
What’s fictional considering the Divrei Yoel is on the record as opposing the eruv?
“Alas that is not to be in NY, since there are people who formed a group called hilchos issurei eruvin.”
And?
“For starters see to whom this teshuvah, Igros Moshe, O.C. 5:28 is written to.”
What about them?
You think Rav Moshe would fall for a bunch of lies or wouldn’t double check the “facts”?
“I would just add that the majority of the inhabitants of Boro Park do not belong categorically to any one group, hence they carry.”
What does not belonging to one group have to do with anything, unless you mean the people who use the eruv don’t have a rov. And are you asserting that most B.P. chasidim are not chasidim of a particular rebbe?
And how does the fact that in Flatbush they follow the Roshei Yeshivos make the people of the neighborhood less amenable to an eruv? And WHY are the R”Y all opposed to the eruv? Did that question cross your mind?
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