Bracha On Pizza

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  • #609226
    recipes
    Member

    So the Halacha is (O”C 168 17)that if most people eat Pas Habah Bi’kisnin as a meal rather than a snack they have to wash even on one drop of the Pas Habah Bi’kisnin.

    So the question is that it seems like most people eat pizza for a meal so you should then have to wash even on a drop. But Some Poskim say that they think most people eat it as a snack.

    So we are going to have here an official ywn survey. Please no tangents just write in if you think most people eat pizza for a meal or a snack.

    Thank You!

    #951616
    real-brisker
    Member

    It probably would depend if they are eating at a meal or at a snack.

    #951617
    tro11
    Member

    I’ve never met anybody who eats pizza as a snack.

    #951618
    Sam2
    Participant

    It really depends. Tiny pizza roll type things or the small triangles that I’ve seen in Israel are probably Mezonos. But it’s very difficult to say that regular pizza is Mezonos. Those who claim “I’m only eating it as a snack” are most likely giving a cop out. A slice of pizza is a meal. Just because we are spoiled and make ourselves fat and want 1000 calories as a meal doesn’t change the fact that a single slice is a meal.

    And recipes, don’t just say “the Halachah is…”. This is a major Machlokes Achronim which has tremendous Nafka Minos. Look at the Ma’amar Mordechai there where he explains the Shittah of the Mechaber.

    #951619
    nem621
    Member

    i would say its a meal but i heard from R’ Heinemann himself that it takes two slices and a side for it to require washing

    #951620
    recipes
    Member

    Sam2 – Klal Yisrael accepted the Mishna Berura’s Psak. This is what he says.

    Also the fact that most people make Hamotzi on pizza bagels shows that the minhag to make Mezonos on pizza is not based on different Poskim (ie. the Taz) rather it’s bec. they think that people don’t eat it mostly for a meal.

    #951621
    HolyMoe
    Participant

    Pizza is always a meal.

    A snack is a nosh between meals. Pizza is, simply, not eaten that way – unless you are fooling yourself.

    I do not understand how anyone can make a bracha of mezonos on even one slice of Pizza and be mevatel the mitzvas Asseh of Bentching.

    #951622
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I only eat it as a meal, but that’s only because I wash on it. So now what.

    Also, I hold like that beur halacha which says it isn’t pas kisnim at all. (to my reading)

    #951623

    I also don’t see how pizza can be a snack. My kids wash on it but say that they are among the few.

    And by the way, hi to Real Brisker. I clicked on you to see if this is your first time back and it says you aren’t here. How do you do that?

    #951624
    recipes
    Member

    poppa – Also, I hold like that beur halacha which says it isn’t pas kisnim at all.

    which one is that?

    #951625
    #951626
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    See OC 168:17 says that “pashtida” (meat pie) is hamotzi. It is not obvious though that SA is talking even where you did not eat it as a kevias seduah.

    MB 94 explains that it is even if you are eating it as snack. Beur Halacha ad locum distinguishes the case of the taz to argue that everyone agrees with this halacha, and says the taz is talking about hors d’oeuvres. I cite to the beur halacha because that’s where he explains it good.

    #951628

    DY -thanks, cute. I forgot to go dashless.

    #951629
    rebdoniel
    Member

    Hamotzi.

    #951630
    real-brisker
    Member

    And by the way, hi to Real Brisker. I clicked on you

    to see if this is your first time back and it says you

    aren’t here. How do you do that?

    Thanks, Yes I haven’t posted in quite some time…

    Don’t ask about the screen name link, it’s good ole days stuff.

    I don’t want to get worked up with it on my first day back. Ask DY he can fill you in. 🙂

    #951631
    real-brisker
    Member

    DY –

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/profile/realbrisker

    See, I told you so!

    You punkt happen to guess my username. It could have been anything!

    #951632
    Sam2
    Participant

    recipes: Klal Yisrael has accepted his P’sak? He is certainly the most widely-learned Sefer as an introduction to Halachah. I didn’t know that that means that we’ve all accepted his P’sak. R’ Moshe, of whom I think we can also say Klal Yisrael in America has accepted his P’sak, only learned a Mishnah B’rurah when a Shoel was M’tzayin it. Don’t just make assumptions into how the Olam Paskens based on what you see in one Sefer, no matter what that Sefer is. Halachah is much more than just finding a major Posek to quote. (See, however, the Rambam’s introduction to the Mishnah Torah, though I think that the Pashtus of it is a misreading based off of the Moreh.)

    #951633
    recipes
    Member

    cmon sam2 stop hocking you know the mishna berurah is usually the final word

    #951634
    real-brisker
    Member

    cmon sam2 stop hocking you know the mishna berurah is usually the final word

    Not for everyone.

    Ex. Sefardim

    #951635

    You punkt happen to guess my username.

    Yup.

    I didn’t know that that means that we’ve all accepted his P’sak.

    Sam2, the Chazon Ish makes a comment about how the M”B is accepted halachah. Unless there’s a known minhag otherwise, it’s usually halachah l’maaseh.

    You punkt happen to guess my username.

    Yup. Should I talk about how I opened the other profile? (I don’t remember the password or the email account I linked to.)

    #951636
    real-brisker
    Member

    DY – I do. 🙂

    It was with the dash. “real-brisker”

    #951637

    I know the profile and username, but I can’t post from that account. I anyhow promised the mods not to play around, if you remember when a mod took me too seriously.

    #951638
    real-brisker
    Member

    Why, you can’t login?

    #951639

    Correct. As I said, I forgot the password, and can’t retrieve it because I don’t remember which email account I used. Either way, those days are over (I did recently open a “DY2” account to see if there was any place where you have to agree to terms when opening an account, in a discussion with ICOT).

    #951640
    WIY
    Member

    Sam

    I believe Rav Belsky holds you wash on 3 slices and as far back as I remember I never from teenage years andon I always ate minimum 2 slices. 2 slices (especially small ones without fries) is not a big meal for any normal male. I don’t know anyone who gets full on one slice and I would venture to say that most adult women eat 1.5 to 2 slices as well unless they are dieting or just want to be hungry.

    #951641
    Sam2
    Participant

    One slice of New York pizza is more than the Shiur mentioned in the Shulchan Aruch that is required for Kvias Seduah for Pas Haba’ah B’kisnin (then again, so are most decently large slices of a heavy cake).

    #951642

    I assume you don’t mean R’ Shneur Zalman’s Shulchan Aruch.

    #951643
    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: I don’t know if the Shulchan Aruch HaRav mentions a Shiur. But, as far as I recall, the Mechaber says 4 Beitzim.

    #951644
    real-brisker
    Member

    DY – How many email accounts do you have already? Those days sure over. ,)

    #951645
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Sam, yes but the MB there in 24 brings another shittah which he thinks is more correct that it is only if you eat the amount one eats a ????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????, which seems to be a lot more. Perhaps 3 slices of pizza.

    The MB says it is appropriate to be machmir like the first mentioned shittos, and to avoid eating more than 3-4 beitzim unless one is anyway eating bread. But he would seem to hold that if you eat 3-4 beitzim, that you should not make hamotzi or bentch.

    #951646

    Rb, I opened one for that purpose.

    #951647

    I always eat it in the context of a seudah, but I would definitely understand making a mezonos if you’re just grabbing one piece as a snack, or you’re in a hurry.

    #951648
    recipes
    Member

    So am I correct in saying that nobody here thinks that pizza is mostly eaten fr a snack?

    So what are we going to do about it?

    How are we going to get people to start making Hamotzi on one slice?

    Whose going to get the Bracha every Shabbos of “KOL ME SHEASKO BITZARCHEI TZIBUR BEEMUNA?

    #951650
    WIY
    Member

    recipes

    #951651
    yytz
    Participant

    In the Laws of Brachos, by R’ Binyomin Forst (p. 235-236), it is explained that pizza used to be eaten as a snack — apparently there were no sit-down pizza shops when the food was first introduced, and people ate it walking down the street. For that reason, the accepted halacha at that time was to recite mezanos. However, because now pizza is generally eaten as a meal, and after all has meal-like ingredients like cheese on it, then we say hamotzi on pizza, even if we are eating it only for a snack. Indeed, the author says that even if we only eat one crumb of a crust of pizza, hamotzi is the correct bracha.

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