Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › Brain teaser – price of oil
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December 20, 2011 3:22 am at 3:22 am #601200nfgo3Member
Would be the price of oil (dollars per barrel) be higher, lower, or about the same as the current price of oil if the State of Israel had a supply of oil equal to the current supply held by Saudi Arabia, and Saudi Arabia had none? Discuss, in particular, whether and how halacha would affect the price of oil.
December 20, 2011 4:45 am at 4:45 am #839440ronrsrMemberis this a test?
December 20, 2011 1:06 pm at 1:06 pm #839441☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantWould be the price of oil (dollars per barrel) be higher, lower, or about the same as the current price of oil if the State of Israel had a supply of oil equal to the current supply held by Saudi Arabia, and Saudi Arabia had none?
Yes (unless there’s another option I’m unaware of).
It would be assur for a Jew to sell it to another at a price 1/5 above market price.
December 20, 2011 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #839442yungerman1ParticipantDaasYochid- How is Yes an answer to a multiple choice question?
I believe it would be assur above 1/6 of market value.
December 20, 2011 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #839443akupermaParticipantThe price in the United States would be unaffected. Oil is a global market, and the law of supply and demand governs. As it is, the United States gets most of its oil from the Americas (produced in the US, or in Canada, Mexico or Venezuela). The Saudis try to keep the price down for long term economic reasons, and if Israel were in the same place, the Israelis would as well. Control of the Israeli oil would probably be firmly in the hands of the Israeli socialists, which would be bad for frum Jews.
If Palestine had been oil rich in 1947, it probably would today have a Governor appointed by either the British or the Americans. One major factor for Israeli independence was the lack of any “plus” to owning Eretz Yisrael, enough to justify the high cost of occupying it.
December 21, 2011 4:23 am at 4:23 am #839444✡onegoal™ParticipantWhat’s this got to do with the price of tea in China?
December 21, 2011 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #839445☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantHow is Yes an answer to a multiple choice question?
I read the question as a yes or no question. As in, “Can I please have a glass of Coke or Pepsi”?
I believe it would be assur above 1/6 of market value.
That depends if you calculate ???? or ????.
December 21, 2011 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #839446nfgo3MemberTo onegoal:
1. What this has to do with the price of tea in China is that it is a question about prices of a commodity consumed throughout the world. The factors governing the price of tea in China are similar to the factors governing the price of oil … or not. Please discuss.
2. If you want to talk about the price of tea in China, why not start your own thread?
To akuperma:
Your answer – that Israel would behave exactly like Saudi Arabia if Israel controlled a major portion of the oil supply of world – is interesting. Do you mean to say that (i) the moral rules governing oil production and pricing are the same under Halacha as under Sharia law, or (ii) Saudis with a secular world view now control Saudi Arabia’s oil policy, and if Israel had control of a comparable supply of oil, secular Israelis would control Israeli oil policy? Saudis use their oil wealth, in part, to generously finance very strict, fundamentalist Muslim education. Would Israel devote a similar portion of its oil wealth for the benefit of Chareidi education?
And why would Israeli socialists control Israeli oil? And if so, why would that be bad for frum Jews?
December 21, 2011 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #839447✡onegoal™ParticipantIt was a bad joke that I meant nothing by. It was the phrase that came to mind when I read “the price of oil”, that’s it.
December 21, 2011 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #839448BTGuyParticipantThings would be totally different. Both countries are on opposite ends from each other.
There is a site of Israeli contributions that is just mind boggling. And it includes helping countries that are officially hostile to Israel. Israel contributes more to the world than America and Europe combined.
saudi arabia, well, I would call them pigs, but I am not going to offend the animals.
December 21, 2011 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #839449nfgo3MemberTo onegoal: I thought your joke was pretty good, and a sensible response to my question.
December 29, 2011 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #839450I can only tryMember=========================================
Here are several things that may or would be different:
The creation of Israel and Jordan from the Palestinian Mandate
A Jewish state would probably never have been allowed to exist, or been allocated in some other resource-poor area.
Arab Aggression and Sino-Soviet Interest
Despite the fact that Israel is tiny territorially and controls almost no natural resources, it is the target of aggression, including several wars, from the Arab and Moslem world. How much more motivated would those attackers be if there was a rich oil prize to be won?
Furthermore, what would the Soviet Union have done to advance their interests?
Nowadays, what would China be doing?
The 1973 Arab Oil Embargo
This had a crippling effect on the US economy and caused day-to-day hardships with the long gas lines and the odd-even license plate gas rationing system. Had Israel controlled the reserves Saudi Arabia did, the embargo would have been far less severe.
The Exportation of Wahhabism and Terror
Saudi Arabia is by far the biggest exporter of violent Islam. They sponsor madrassas, camps, cultural centers, mosques and the like worldwide that preach intolerance toward other faiths and advocate violence and terror as legitimate tools in the spread of Islam and defeat of the infidel. Without the billions of petrodollars they have available, their influence and ability to sponsor the above would be severely curtailed.
Furthermore, the State Department would be far less beholden to Saudi Arabia, and less willing to turn a blind eye to their racist and misogynistic government policies.
OPEC
I believe Israel would have been far more receptive to a request from its greatest ally and benefactor.
Furthermore, Israel would never be permitted into OPEC.
The Israeli Economy
The Israeli standard of living would be much improved. IMO, they would probably follow the Norwegian model of spreading the wealth derived from its natural resources to their citizenry. Furthermore, gasoline and power would be far more plentiful and affordable for the non-well-to-do.
A potential consequence would be fewer innovations and technological advances due to the lessening pressure to make a buck with no natural resources.
Israel would charge market price. They would produce as much as they could, thereby lowering the price worldwide and helping the American (among others) economy.
They would not curtail production to maximize price because:
b) They need friends.
2) Ona may not apply even if they somehow found a buyer, since the buyer would be aware of the price discrepancy (this is a machlokes).
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Two Saudi princes pull up to a bank with a tractor-trailer full of cash.
Six hours later, the president approaches the two men.
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