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often to the detriment of the person being manipulated”
That’s really the key line, and that is certainly subjective.
often to the detriment of the person being manipulated”
That’s really the key line, and that is certainly subjective.
Vogue, that’s not brainwashing, that’s bribery.
Vogue -“I didn’t hesitate to start looking at schools, anyone know of good Jewish colleges in brooklyn that don’t charge a ton of money,”
Part time in Touro should Not be that costly and you could be in a girls only class.
often to the detriment of the person being manipulated”
That’s really the key line, and that is certainly subjective.
It is often true, but it doesn’t have to be true. I can brainwash you into eating your veggies (or going to college, or stop being a Toaivanik), and it would still be brainwashing.
True, Gavra, but no one would get so worked up about it or eve bother to call it brainwashing. We object when certain techniques are used by the tobacco companies, but we wouldn’t if used by a veggie salesman.
Gavra is exactly right. Brainwashing has a bad rep. Brainwashing for nefarious purposes is what is bad.
Is that exactly what Gavra was saying?
but we wouldn’t if used by a veggie salesman.
I would, and I would hope most others would as well.
DY: “We object when certain techniques are used by the tobacco companies…”
That may have once been true. Nowadays, the anti-tobacco people rule the world from the shadows.
If you don’t believe me, just see how they already got so many here (especially “Health,” he’s way gone).
I hate being manipulated by other people. Always.
Chinuch is different though. As it must be.
I always thought brainwashing was a good thing because a dirty brain could use a brainwashing, that’s why I teach
frumnotyeshivish -“That may have once been true. Nowadays, the anti-tobacco people rule the world from the shadows.”
Really how so?
“If you don’t believe me, just see how they already got so many here (especially “Health,” he’s way gone).”
You mean because I voice my opinion against smoking?
Funny, if there was a shred of truth in what you are saying then thousands of youth wouldn’t start smoking every year.
What bothers you is that the anti-smokers are gaining in this country. Once upon a time, we had no voice. In BMG, smoking was once allowed in the Bais Medrash, when I was there it was allowed in the building, including the library. Nowadays it’s supposedly not allowed in any building.
“I hate being manipulated by other people. Always.”
Hypocrisy at its’ finest. You can control and manipulate others, but if s/o tries to do it to you -then this gets your goat.
You seem the type that thinks you can smoke anywhere, no matter who it bothers. If you want to kill yourself that’s fine by me, but who gave you the right to kill others?!?
See how brainwashing works? Health, I was counting on you to prove my point.
(As an aside, and for like the fourth time we’ve been in such a dialogue, I DON’T SMOKE.)
Brainwashed or not, I must address one thing you’re saying:
“Hypocrisy at its finest. You can control and manipulate others, but if s/o tries to do it to you -then this gets your goat.”
1. Why do you think I control and manipulate others?
2. Even if I do (I try not to btw), why is it hypocritical? Doing what you hate done to yourself to others is wrong, but not inherently dishonest.
Look at these name-brand schools as factories trying to work a set rule-brick through countless students. Many girls won’t fit perfectly into the school mold.
They try to tell you what’s best to be done in utopia (while understanding it isn’t perfect for all). They then try to discuss your personal life with you personally (which may or not be the same as the original molded brain wash).
Good luck.
frumnotyeshivish -“(As an aside, and for like the fourth time we’ve been in such a dialogue, I DON’T SMOKE.)”
Ok, so you don’t smoke – so why are you constantly defending smokers? Does your wife, parents or other relatives smoke?
“Brainwashed or not, I must address one thing you’re saying:
1. Why do you think I control and manipulate others?
2. Even if I do (I try not to btw), why is it hypocritical? Doing what you hate done to yourself to others is wrong, but not inherently dishonest.”
Listen, the subject of smoking is a tangent -your hypocrisy is a tangent on a tangent -so I’m not going to get into it with you.
But I’ll tell you, the world, not just me, considers “Do as I say, not as I do”, as hypocrisy.
You still haven’t answered any of my points. From above:
“”That may have once been true. Nowadays, the anti-tobacco people rule the world from the shadows.”
Really how so?
“If you don’t believe me, just see how they already got so many here (especially “Health,” he’s way gone).”
You mean because I voice my opinion against smoking?
Funny, if there was a shred of truth in what you are saying then thousands of youth wouldn’t start smoking every year.”
Why do you insist that I’ve been brainwashed?
I’m bumping this to show Syag that my objection to overuse of the word “brainwashing” is not limited to one context, and that her attack on me in the now closed thread was misplaced and unfair.
I know this thread was a year ago, but the actual definition of brainwashing is removing a person’s ability to think for themselves and they instead begin to think as they have been taught, without any intelligent thought processes behind it. Brainwashing tends to involve a lot of parroting, and the brainwashed person will simply repeat themselves (sometimes word for word) without actually being capable of explaining what they are parroting.
Missionaries are a good example – they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and just keep at the same nonsense they have been taught.
I personally have not experienced any brainwashing in chinuch – yes, there are ideas that have widespread influence, but on the whole, girls who go through the BY system can think intelligently for themselves (most of them, anyway).
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