August 1, 2011 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #598352optimusprimeMember
I have seen both Chareidi and MO jews have breakfast before Shacharis on Shabbos and Yom Tov. Is there a source for this?August 1, 2011 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #792717YW Moderator-42Moderator
It’s a long davening and they need the energy. Unfortunately, that excuse doesn’t work on Yom Kippur and Tisha B’avAugust 1, 2011 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #792718
do you know if they have diabetes or other medical conditions that might require this?August 1, 2011 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #792719LevTovMishteTomidMember
i believe that if a person normally says brachos, then on shabbos he should eat before he says brachos (if he needs). because once he has said brachos and begins shacharis he must say kiddush in order to have something to eat.August 1, 2011 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm #792720optimusprimeMember
When I experienced it, I do not think anyone had diabetes. It was just foreign to me as I was taught to just have water or coffee and nothing else before ShacharisAugust 1, 2011 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #792721Another nameParticipant
So what’s wrong with the person making kiddush?August 1, 2011 10:54 pm at 10:54 pm #792722
i know a Rav who makes kiddush before Shachris for a medical reasonAugust 1, 2011 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #792723Another nameParticipant
mod 80- that’s what I was saying. If someone has to eat before shacharis it is BETTER to make kiddush then.August 1, 2011 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #792724
i was supporting your contention with an actual exampleAugust 1, 2011 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #792725dunnoMember
I heard you can have everything besides mezonos and hamotziAugust 2, 2011 2:39 am at 2:39 am #792726ItcheSrulikMember
Technically it isn’t allowed, but it is very widespread. In a way, you can say that some charedim are allowed but MO Jews are not because in certain Chassidic sects it’s the official minhag.August 2, 2011 2:43 am at 2:43 am #792727bortezomibParticipant
wait- you’re not allowed to eat anything before kiddush on Shabbos day? Really?August 2, 2011 2:44 am at 2:44 am #792728HachamMember
Breakfast or a piece of cake? I see people taking a piece of cake and coffee, but it is hardly a full fledged breakfast.August 2, 2011 3:00 am at 3:00 am #792729bezalelParticipant
So what’s wrong with the person making kiddush?
Accoring to some poskim kiddush must be b’mokom seudah.August 2, 2011 3:02 am at 3:02 am #792730WolfishMusingsParticipant
I’ve been known to take some water with my medicine before davening on Shabbos morning when my eye infection acts up.
The WolfAugust 2, 2011 3:11 am at 3:11 am #792731golden momMember
I always learned that u can’t eat bf davening cuz it like in the time of the bais hamikdash eating bf giving a korbon. But when I got married my husband side all have cake and coffee bf shul and I was surprised! And then I was more surprised to learn the shabbos bavafin when chosen gets called up and friends family come to the house to escort him to shul before davening pp set up a whole breakfast for the menAugust 2, 2011 6:46 am at 6:46 am #792732YW Moderator-42Moderator
Golden mom, what’s this minhag of eating boyfriends who are davening? Is that a MO thing?August 2, 2011 6:55 am at 6:55 am #792733HealthParticipant
42 – Eating them is instead of burning them on the altar (Mizbeach).August 2, 2011 6:56 am at 6:56 am #792734quark2Member
many (not sure about all) Chassidim are not makpid on this at all (asei docheh lo sasei maybe?)August 2, 2011 7:12 am at 7:12 am #792735HereWeGoMember
I learned, at least for women, it’s ok to say brachos and then make kiddush and eat, and then daven everything else. I think the reason was women are not necessarily obligated to daven shachris/mussaf, so they “daven” and then make kiddush and eat, and the rest of the davening is extra.
Also, I learned to drink water before brachos because you can eat/drink only after kiddush if it’s time for kiddush, so you need tomake sure you haven’t davened anything yet, so it’s for sure not time for kiddush at that point. It would make sense that at that point you can eat, too, especially if on a regular weekday you don’t always say brachos before eating/davening (chassidishe women?).May 23, 2017 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #1283947mik5Participant
It’s a Chabad minhag. According to plain halacha, one cannot eat before davening SE (for men) unless sick, weak, etc. Chabad claims that nowadays everyone is sick, weak, etc. But for MO people – I don’t know what their heter is.May 23, 2017 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #1284009yytzParticipant
Chabad has the minhag to specifically eat mezanos before davening. Other chassidim may be lenient as well; I don’t know. But traditionally Breslov has been strict — Rebbe Nachman and Reb Noson were careful not to drink even water or coffee before davening.
Some people probably daven Shacharis at home and make kiddush and then have a snack before coming to shul on Shabbos, but then of course you don’t get to daven with a minyan for Shacharis.
I think I’ve heard people say you’re allowed to eat before Shabbos davening if you would get weak without food, but I don’t know if there’s a non-chassidic posek who rules that way (for a regular healthy person.)May 23, 2017 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #1284008GadolhadorahParticipant
Well, if you want to be creative, you can call breakfast a “late Shabbos dinner” and daven Vasikin. I think in Megilla, 23(a) it ways that we are supposed to come to Shul “early” on Shabbos and one of the maforshim (Rashi?) adds that this means that one should come early enough to daven Vasikin.May 23, 2017 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #1284021WolfishMusingsParticipant
The only time I have anything before davening is if I decide to take my medication before davening. If so, then I’ll take a drink to help me get down the pills I am taking.
The WolfMay 23, 2017 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #1284027Lilmod UlelamaidParticipant
“I’ve been known to take some water with my medicine before davening on Shabbos morning when my eye infection acts up.”
The Shulchan Aruch (89/3) specifically says that both water and medication are okay, so I think you’re well-covered here.May 23, 2017 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #1284015Lilmod UlelamaidParticipant
According to the Shulchan Aruch (Orach Chayim 89/4), if you are so hungry or thirsty that you will not be able to have kavana unless you eat or drink, you are allowed to.
Water is okay in any case. So are coffee and tea, although the Mishna Berurah says you can’t add milk or sugar. According to Ishei Yisrael, nowadays everyone does add sugar and milk, and there is what to be someich on.
All of the above applies to all Jews, so MO people are okay if they feel they need to eat in order to be able to daven.May 24, 2017 12:08 am at 12:08 am #1284097lowerourtuition11210Participant
The minhag by the lubavitch is to ea something in the morning in case davening ends after chatzos.
Gadolhadorah: in your case that someone is davening vasikin, the odds are they awake before alos hashachar when it is muttar to eat and drink.May 24, 2017 1:46 am at 1:46 am #1284127chabadgalParticipant
“better to eat in order to daven then to daven in order to eat”May 24, 2017 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1284506apushatayidParticipant
So, to dan lekaf zechus kiddush clubs everywhere…..
They dont eat before davening because of “lo sochal al hadam”, and once they daven shachris they cant eat anything until they make kiddush, so, they do. They make sure to eat enough mezonos so that it qualifies as a seudah too.
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