February 18, 2010 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #591256Chani KaufmanMember
Please help. I don’t know how to help my daughter in Eretz Yisroel. I feel that today’s generation is too over-worked. She has 8 children and works two jobs. They have no car and a three bedroom crampt apt. I wish I could help them more. When I want to give my kids in the states a break I send them the whole Shabbos or even take their kids. I feel stressed that I can’t help my daughter is Yerushalayim more.February 18, 2010 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #1125480smartcookieMember
She MUST stop working. Even if it takes her husband to find a job. She shouldve stopped by her 3rd child.
She should stop convincing herself and others that she’s managing it.
Prob is only that the mom in law can’t get involved and tell them what to do!!
Hatzlacha and thanks for being a concerned parent!!February 18, 2010 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #1125481
Are THEY unhappy with their situation?February 18, 2010 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #1125482shindyMember
What you describe is a typical Israeli family. Lots of kids in three bedroom apartments, working two jobs, and of course no car. If she has food to give her family she is in a better place than many others.
Some people choose to live outside of Jerusalem where they can get bigger apartments for less money.
really nothing you can do but give her your support and encouragement.February 18, 2010 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #1125483
Mod 80 (whose opinions I DO respect) – unless I mistake your reply, you seem to be implying that unless the couple in E”Y is not complaining, that there is no problem. What difference does it make if they are unhappy or not? Would you ask the same thing if the couple were off the derech, or living in the street, and the mom was heartbroken about it? Sometimes people in a difficult and stressful matzav cannot see that matzav as being terrible – until it is too late to change the ramifications of it (i.e., a nervous or physical breakdown, a broken marriage, etc.)
A woman with kinehora 8 children who works two jobs to make ends meet, and is living in a small apartment, presumably with a husband who is unemployed (though to be fair it was NOT stated as such by the OP), has a very real problem. If she does not see this as problematic, then either she is really blind to her own situation, or has been brainwashed into thinking that she is only worthy if she accepts this as her lot in life.
Chani, you have to try very hard to separate yourself from the stress this is causing you. You cannot be of help to your daughter either in E”Y or here, if you develop high blood pressure, etc. from your stress about her stress. If you have the financial resources and are able to do so, perhaps you could help them out financially, or even go there for a visit to help her with the kids and household stuff. If not, try and open up a dialogue with her and see what SHE feels she needs, and try to see what solutions you can elicit from HER (i.e. to have it come from HER that her husband needs a job, or a second job).
Nobody ever said life would be easy. It’s just so hard to sit back and watch our kids when we presume they are suffering.February 18, 2010 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #1125484chesednameParticipant
The million dollar question, is he learning, looking for work, working but doesn’t make enough, or to lazy to do either??
If he’s learning then mod 880 is right as long as she’s happy it’s no ones business.
If he’s looking for work the only help you can provide is money or find him a job.
If he’s working but doesn’t make enough than again all you can do is find him a better job or send money.
if he’s not learning or working or looking to work, they have many problems besides money!
Bottom line chances are you should but out, unless he’s a bum or abusing her.
You can cause major shalom bais issues if you say the wrong thing, while only trying to help!! Think before you do anything and even then ask a rav before anything is said or done!!February 18, 2010 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #1125485
I know a number of families in Eretz Yisroel, in a similar matziv, who wouldn’t want to live any other way, and thank Hashem every day for allowing them to live such a blessed life.
I was just wondering if this family was like that or if they were unhappy with their lives. That would be a critical distinction to make when deciding whether a parent should intervene in some way.
My son and his Kallah, before they got married dreamed of living in such a Matziv. He looked forwards to having guests for Shabbos and giving up his portion in the meal so a guest could enjoy it.
They live in such a matziv now and we couldnt get them to change it for a million dollars. They exist from day to day and yet are enveloped in an atmosphere of deep and profound Simcha
There are all kinds of Yiddin in this world, and they cant all be placed into our compartmentalized concepts of happiness.February 18, 2010 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #1125486
I meant to add that parents have to also recognize when they can and when they cannot “interfere.” They also have to be very strongly aware that their kids want to and need to make their own way in life, even when it is difficult, just as they learned to take their first steps as infants and fell down a lot. It hurts to watch the process, but sometimes that is all we can do. I really can see both sides of this not so easy issue, and upon reflection, I do believe that if the daughter is genuinely happy, then perhaps it IS her business. The mom should try to dialogue with her, as I said previously, to see if this is truly the case, and if so, just be supportive emotionally and financially, to some extent, if at all possible, in an emergency.February 18, 2010 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #1125487bmwParticipant
Call someone for the newcomers guide, It is a publication that comes out in Israel and has advertisements geared toward the anglo charedi community. There are many ads there for kugels for shabbos or the whole shabbos, or even suppers. You can find out about cleaning ladys that you can send to her.February 18, 2010 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #1125488Be HappyParticipant
Cleaning help would be great. Could you find someone to take the children out or keep them occupied in the house?February 18, 2010 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #1125489PosterMember
bmw, that is a great. These pple advertised can send supper, shabbos, desserts and since there are so many it is not very expensive.February 19, 2010 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #1125491bptParticipant
Which odom godol or rebbe would advise a woman with 8 children to hold down 2 jobs?
Your daugher needs to ask the question point blank; not just keep on plowing thru the day, hoping to make it all work. Let her ask her rov / rebbe what they think. Not what the neighbors or her sibligs think.
She might be surpised at the answer.February 19, 2010 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #1125492
How old are the children?
What kind of jobs are the 2 jobs. Does she work 16 hours a day?
Or is one job tutoring children one or two hours a day on sunday, and the other job styling sheitels.
I think the Odom Godol would certainly ask these questions and I think what he would advise them would be greatly dependent upon their levels of Yirus Shamayim, Bitochon, and love of the Abishter.
Maybe this is a family on the brink of destruction.
Maybe this family exists in a bliss that most of us could not imagine.
Let’s not assume too much based on our own american ideas and ideals.February 20, 2010 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #1125493bored123Participant
Mod 80 – thanks for that! so true! i know people living in israel who just about have enough money to feed their kids. One week i gave them back some money i owed them – a total of 25 shekel – and she says to me, ah perfect now i have money to buy my fish for shabbos! i personally couldn’t live like that – but she’s the happiest person, she has a job, her husband is a cheder teacher, ba’h they have 9 kids – and guess what – you would never see her or her husband without a smile on their faces – they are one of the happiest people i know! and do you know what – so are their kids – and that’s th biggest proof of it all! so yes, sometimes we cant fathom how these people live, but they do and they love it and wouldn’t want it any other way.February 21, 2010 1:11 am at 1:11 am #1125494
That may be true for the daughter, but it is the MOTHER who is understandably upset about it. No parent would want to see her child living like that – I would not believe anyone who said otherwise. Yes, it is a noble and wonderful maileh that the daughter or the woman in the 25 shekel story are not materialistic, and are happy despite not having much. That does not however, preclude the MOM from feeling pained at that. I don’t even know either woman, and I feel her pain.February 21, 2010 1:26 am at 1:26 am #1125495bmwParticipant
Reality check, Reading Chani’s question, I do not see any request for opinions on whether you approve of her daughters way of life. She wants some ideas for a way to help her. There is no way of life that everyone across the board will approve of. As long as no crime is being committed be open to people that are different than you.February 21, 2010 5:08 am at 5:08 am #1125496JotharMember
There have been numerous studies proving that people used to be happier BEFORE modern life and its conveniences came along. It’s definitely possible they’re happier like that. You can’t assume either way.February 21, 2010 8:43 am at 8:43 am #1125497gitty wiessMember
If the girl wants to hold two jobs to help her husband learn that is her own choice. I know plenty of rich people in the U.S. who work like dogs just to drive a nice car.
As far as you Chani, you can’t get stressed about your daughter, it dosen’t help anyway. There are ways to help her though, There is a website called http://WWW.ShabbosKodesh.com in which you can send a whole Shabbos to your kids in Israel. I do it all the time and it’s a real break for my kids.February 21, 2010 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #1125498bored123Participant
well actually oomis her mother is very happy for her because that’s the way she was brought up to live and bh her mother is shepping nachos seeing her live like that. in response to chain who obviously didn’t live like that, yes its hard to watch and i can feel her pain as i wasn’t brought up like that either, but like BMW says – u cant make everyone happy all the time.February 21, 2010 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #1125499amichaiParticipant
we really have to hear from the daughter in jerusalem if she is burnt out or not. maybe she is totally happy in her situation and to be leading such a life. a mother always feels for her children and that they work too hard. the ideas to send cleaning help and or meals was excellent . may the bubby have much nachas from her children.February 22, 2010 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #1125500tomim tihyeMember
Is this daughter the type who’d rather be out of the house working all day than stay home with crying babies and housework?
I have friends like that, and then their mothers tell me, “You’re lucky you only work part-time. My poor daughter works full-time and she has more kids than you.”
Yeah, Moms, but your poor daughter CHOSE to work full-time and hire cleaning help and spend less time with her kids…
I choose to live with minimum and forego cleaning help so I can be home more hours than away.
Then again, I’m speaking from the American viewpoint; maybe in E”Y things are different.January 13, 2016 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #1125501HashemisreadingParticipant
Doesn’t anyone wonder what ended up happening to Chani Kaufman’s daughter? did she take on a 3rd job? did her husband leave kollel? did they move back to America?January 13, 2016 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #1125502JosephParticipant
She won the Israeli lottery, retired, and lived happily ever after.January 14, 2016 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #1125503HashemisreadingParticipant
I’m sure her successful ending was a result of all the advice her mom got from here.January 14, 2016 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #1125504gdovzMember
Is this what Hashem really wants? 8 kids, two jobs, and husband does nothing to help financially?January 14, 2016 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #1125505☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Gdovz, who said the husband doesn’t help financially?
Besides, we got such a limited picture of their life, there’s no way to judge. Would you have said the same about Rav Elyashiv’s family?
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