July 10, 2011 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #597874s2021Member
No one seems to know what the deal is with Starbucks… Can someone kindly tell me?(its even soy milk!) Store where sandwiches r not made on premises..July 10, 2011 10:22 pm at 10:22 pm #785858dunnoMember
I was told fraps aren’t allowed but ask your LORJuly 10, 2011 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #785859aries2756Participant
NotJuly 10, 2011 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #785860Another nameParticipant
Some Starbucks stores are more trustworthy than others…
BTW, There are plenty of Jewish places nowadays that make awesome (albeit a bit pricey) FrappuchinosJuly 11, 2011 2:38 am at 2:38 am #785861DroidMember
Some Starbucks stores are more trustworthy than others…
How can you rely on that? They have no certification. If some are bad, you never know if that’s the case in the one you got your drink in.July 11, 2011 3:56 am at 3:56 am #785862Another nameParticipant
I personally don’t rely on Starbucks, but I have many friends that do, since they say that in frummer areas, the Starbucks employees know not to break the rules and they can be trusted.
I’m not advocating either way- just sharing my (limitted) knowledge on the matterJuly 11, 2011 1:43 pm at 1:43 pm #785863yungerman1Participant
According to the Star K you can NOT have a Frappucino that is made in the store.July 11, 2011 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #785864yitayningwutParticipant
There are no non-kosher ingredients. You can verify this at your local Starbucks.
However, not all of the ingredients are certified.July 11, 2011 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #785865A Heimishe MomParticipant
The grid of which products you can buy in which type of Starbucks has been published a number of times in recent weeks. Search the net, email kashrus agencies – you will find it.
Soy milk is a much bigger problem than regular milk! If you are even walking into a Starbucks you aren’t makpid on Chalav Yisroel. Milk will have a hechsher, soy milk might not.July 11, 2011 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #785866July 12, 2011 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #785867cokeMember
is it really that important? if its a question then why even go there. there are other good places to get a frap from I’m sure. I’m not saying you cant and if its ok then its ok but if its questionable then why not just stay away.July 13, 2011 1:47 am at 1:47 am #785868
For the most reliable Starbucks information see http://www.crcweb.org/starbucks_intro.php
They did the most research and are the most reliable.
And by the way, a goy has no neemunus no matter how honest he seems!!July 13, 2011 2:47 am at 2:47 am #785869A Woman Outside BrooklynParticipant
Frappachino’s are definitely not kosher – there’s something in the emulsifier (thickening agent) that’s treif. The exception being the bottled Fraps that lots of stores sell. The bottle has a hechsher (sorry, can’t remember whose) on it.July 13, 2011 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #785870yitayningwutParticipant
And by the way, a goy has no neemunus no matter how honest he seems!!
This is incorrect. See the first s’if in YD 98. Even according to the Rema over there there are many instances in which a non-Jew is believed. In general when a company has any possibility of getting a bad name or being sued if they lie, their testimony is perfectly reliable and accepted al pi halacha.
A Woman outside bkln-
Frappachino’s are definitely not kosher – there’s something in the emulsifier (thickening agent) that’s treif.
Not everyone holds this way (not every ingredient is black and white). You shouldn’t judge those who are meikil because there are rabbanim who hold that Frappuccinos are kosher and people might just be following their rav (like me).
The exception being the bottled Fraps that lots of stores sell. The bottle has a hechsher (sorry, can’t remember whose) on it.
The bottle has a k. The way the k symbol works is that the company hires a rabbi to certify the products, and the reason it is usually not relied upon is because they can hire whoever they want, and it can be some reform rabbi too. With Starbucks it is known that the rabbi they use is Rabbi Zevulun Charlop and therefore the k is relied upon.July 13, 2011 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #785871
First of all, in this case the goy for sure has no neemanus. The worker does not care about any “bad name” that might come out of how he claims he washes the dishes etc..
Second of all, according to CRC, who did moths of research on Starbucks, the Frappuccino base is not certified and has kosher sensitive ingredients. See the link I left above and here:
http://www.crcweb.org/Starbucks%20cRc%20Full%20Article%20April%202011.pdf an extensive report on Starbucks.
As is clear on the CRC’s report, they were not looking for chumros at all. They are also not a “right wing” hisachdus type of organization. Rabbi Fishbein of the CRC is one of the leading kashrus experts in the U.S.A. and heads the A.K.O.- Association of Kashrus Organizations of America. If he has a problem with this drink, so should you.
As far as your Rov, I do not know who he is, nor do I want to know who he his. However, very few Rabonim are experts in the kashrus field. They might be able to answer kashrus questions, but many of them are not up to date with the modern complications which are presented with today’s advanced technology, even in coffee shops.
I am not at all familiar with the Star-K. All i know is that they are far from leaning to chumros. They permit what many kashrus organizations do not.
If it is true, as posted earlier, that they also feel one may not drink a Frappuccino, it might be time for your “Rov” to pick up the phone and speak to some kashrus vaadim who are familiar with the situation.July 13, 2011 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #785872kollelguy_dot_comMember
There is a wonderful service that keeps up to date on all kosher issues relating to starbucks. Sign up to their emails which come only about once a quarter.July 13, 2011 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #785873600 Kilo BearMember
Reminds me of what I say about Coke. Rav Landa does not permit Coca Cola outside of EY. Here, we observe that issur in the breach – no Coke or Diet Coke in public but everyone who wants it drinks it in private if they have to. Pepsi is my first choice, but if it’s hot and all I can get is cold Diet Coke, so be it.
I don’t drink Coke in public here because those are our kehilla rules and I don’t want machloikes or anyone going around saying I use it. As for why I do drink it in private – while I have nothing but respect for Rav Landa and his is the only hechsher I trust 100%, just as I don’t insist on a hechsher for bleach, I don’t insist on one for Coke either.
What’s the only difference between bleach and Coke in EY? One is Badatz, the other is Rav Landa :).
(With Kakacino or whatever it’s called there are probably CY issues, but those drinks are all chemicals anyway. However, I think I am one of the few diehards who does not even walk into a Starbucks because of CY issues. I think you can have the plain coffee there and even some teas with no issues of CY, but I don’t feel right going in there.)July 14, 2011 12:28 am at 12:28 am #785874cherrybimParticipant
Those of us who are learn daf yomi (Chulin)now know what Rav Moshe zt’l meant when he stated in his t’shuva that Chalov Stam in the United States is like Chalov Yisroel and those who are a Baal Nefesh should drink the Chalov Yisroel.
So what is a Baal Nefesh? A Baal Nefesh is someone who goes beyond the Ikor Hadin which is determined by the reasoning of “Rove”, and follows that which is determined by “Mee’ute” which is lifnei m’shuras hadin.July 14, 2011 12:59 am at 12:59 am #785875the bossMember
you could visit http://www.kosherstarbucks.com, they provide you with a list of drinks that are recommende and not recommended in starbucks. they did alot of research good luckJuly 14, 2011 3:54 am at 3:54 am #785876
600 Kilo Bear-
I have no idea what your rant is about Coke, which kehilah here assurs it, or what it has to do with Starbucks. I always thought that the Coke syrup is the same here as in E.Y. But this is not a Coke thread.
the boss- and kollelguy_dot_com-
The website you are referring to has no backing from any Rabbonim or experts in the field of kashrus. Kashrus is quite complicated. Two guys doing research into Starbucks have no business runnng this type of website without any Rabbinic backing.
They have no problem arguing with the CRC based on their own logic. CRC did at least as much research as they did. They have experience. They have poskim (who are not extreme machmirim.)
The BIG kulos given on that site are based on a psak from a Rabbi who’s standards are not accepted by almost any other orthodox Rabbi or any kashrus organization. According to that Rabbi, one may eat Hellmans mayonnaise on Pesach. In fact, you can eat almost anything on Pesach. His Sifrei Torah were rendered posul by almost every one of the accepted Poskim of our times, here and in Eretz Yisroel.
Don’t drink off of websites who have no Vaad or Rabbi backing them. Stick to the reputable Vaadim such as CRC and others.
And by the way, enjoy your kosher coffee!!July 14, 2011 5:15 am at 5:15 am #785877600 Kilo BearMember
I was just talking about chemical drinks in general.
Anyway, here is some real chochma from the Starbucks kashrus site:
Soy Milk Non-Dairy
Use soy milk instead of milk in any beverage and it will be non-dairy, chalav yisroel.
Non dairy chalav yisroel?
Other than that, which shows sloppiness, the only real problem I found is that they recommend the use of this soy milk without mentioning whether it is supervised. Soy milk is a complex product. I also see no connection between the findings of that site, which match the CRC in many places, and the work of the “rabbi” you mention, who is indeed not reliable.July 14, 2011 6:00 am at 6:00 am #785878Midwest2Participant
When I was very young and not yet frum I worked for a summer in a local site of a non-kosher restaurant chain. You don’t want to know what went on in the kitchen. Just thinking about it still makes me shudder. If you think the help actually keep the rules that the management sets out for things like cleanliness, putting the dishes the right way in the dishwasher, etc., I’ve got a nice bridge to sell you. The chain doesn’t pay the help well enough to make them care about doing a good job, and half the time they don’t have what they need to do it, anyway. A barrista doesn’t make bubkes, and the turnover rate is astronomical. And there’s no friendly mashgiach dropping in randomly to check up.
Buy a blender and learn to make your own frappucinos. It’s probably cheaper and a good deal safer for both your kashrus and your physical health!
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