Cancelling Bein Hazmanim?

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    🍫Syag Lchochma

    I find myself in emotional turmoil everytime I have to “give my boys back” to their dorms. I am so grateful for the time they are home so that we can enjoy nachas from them, and then i have a lump in my throat as the time nears to pack their bags. Do you think it would be better to cancel these “breaks” so that mother’s shouldn’t have to experience discomfort of seperating? I mean, sure it would be hard for them, they are learning round the clock for months on end, but why should I have to suffer? Isn’t life about happiness and comfort?

    And while we are at it, maybe the elementary schools and yeshiva k’tana’s could do the same so the kids won’t have to feel the disappointment of summer ending. Isn’t avoiding a bad situation a good thing? Like my friend who says she never cleans up her kids toys cuz then it’s too hard to let them play with them and make a mess. Right? Or to never do laundry and then you don’t have to feel bad when something spills on you.


    (dedicated to NeutiquamErro and yekke)

    Little Froggie

    That makes life more interesting. Actually that’s what life in essence is. The joys vs. the “other side”. And focusing on the joyous side. Medrash (somewhere) says ??? ???? ???? ????? ???, a king who cried on the night of his son’s marriage, because he envisioned the time his son’s death. And the Gemarah that R. Elozer ben Azaryah told his Rebbitzen: better to use a fancy vessel even though it’s going to be broken afterwards.

    Enjoy, enjoy everything life has to offer. And take the opportunity to thank HaShem for each and every one. Look forward, anticipate greeting them not the other part that eventually comes.

    I’m sure you don’t need MY help, advice, encouragement. You’re just laying it on, right? (well I just spilled out my last one and a half sense.. none left)


    Syag: I’m convinced. #cancelbeinhaz #hashtagban #thanksforthededication

    Seriously/not seriously, Bein Hazzmanim as a concept obviously needs a revamp. In it’s current state, it seems to reflect the obvious fallacy that regular yeshiva life is somehow a state of living one needs a break from.

    And furthermore, by having the bochurim going home to see their parents, it insinuates the parents’ time (law of averages dictating that the majority of them are themselves not in full time learning) is somehow more valuable than that of the bochurim, who of course spend every waking moment poring over a gemora.

    Reversing this process by having parents bring themselves, and their extended family, to the yeshiva to visit the bochurim for the period of beinhaz, would more accurately reflect the respective value of their roles in this temporary world. With the status quo, we really must consider what message we are sending to the next generation.

    #cancelbeinhaz #mom&dad2lakewood #hashtagban

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    Great points! Along those same lines of thinking, I always got upset when teachers offered the class a video on Friday if they learned well all week, as if the video was the treat and the learning was what you trudged thru to get there.

    So if the parents all pack up and join jr. in the dorm, the pressing questions are where do the moms sleep, and who does the laundry?

    I do believe that it would provide a necessary shift in the perception of what is considered “home base” and who should be reconnecting with whom.



    Technicalities, technicalities.

    Sure, it’d represent a slight drop in living standards for the families, and sure, the psychological damage incurred all round* would balance out any potential benefit. but think of the principle! Surely proving to our impressionable youngsters the esteem in which we hold their tireless endeavours supersedes any niggling concerns about practicalities, basic facts and kibbud ov ve’eim. Let the revolution begin.

    #cancelbeinhaz #yeshivafoodreallyisthatbad #hashtagban

    *to the parents at seeing the manner in which their young darlings look after themselves year round; to the younger siblings at having to experience the sheer horror of yeshiva dorm life; to the bochurim being stuck in the same building for a full year; and numerous other concerns… #grouptherapyischeaper


    in lakewood BMG there is no bein Hazemanim. as soon as tisha b’av is over they give you a danish & then start yarchei kalla. As soon as yom kippur is over they give you a danish & give you 4 days to learn the entire masechtas sukka for the upcoming yom tov


    I think Bein Hazamin is very important and it is not a good thing its gets shorter every year.

    There is a reason people sleep, go on vacation or do other things to “chill out”. You can get burned out. How often do we hear about yeshiva boys getting burned out. Breaks are healthy and needed otherwise things have the potential to burn out .


    I don’t think it’s a good idea to cancel Bien Hazamnium as this is the only vacation they have. They need a little relaxation otherwise they will burn out. Would you want your younger kids to go to school year round and have no summer vacation? I don’t think so.





    How does ??? ?????? “get shorter each year” ? It is still from after ??? ???? until ??? ???? ???????, from ??? ???? ???? until ??? ???? ???? and from ???? ??? until ??? ???? ????. If anything , it is more common now to start a bit earlier.


    Sam2: I’d hoped the ‘seriously/not seriously’, as well as blatantly contradicting my own ‘argument’, would suffice to circumvent Poe’s Law. Unfortunately, it still rears it’s ugly head…

    #forcryingoutlouditwasajoke #cancelbeinhaz #ironyintheusa #hashtagban


    Why is it that we always talk about yeshivot as a collective? Couldn’t we cancel bein azmanim in some yeshivot, while keeping it in others?

    This could come in handy in shiduchim too. “Yes, Sarah had a great time too. But she’s looking for someone who doesn’t take bein azmanim”.

    On a serious note, bein azmanim is immensely important. For those who learn intensively, it’s a necessery repose. In general it allows bachurim to connect with their family and the real world (to some extent) It also give them some freedom from their friends’ influence. Living 24 hours with other people your age can crush your individuality.

    That’s it. I think I’ve put in enough contoversy for this to go on.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    Person, everything you said made sense until you called it the “real world”. That is the sad misperception people actually have, don’t realize they shouldn’t have, and what NE and I were “joking” about. You may be right that it isn’t feasible to have everyone learning full time, but there is nothing real about the the secular world.

    Speaking of which:

    #startedworkthisweek #limitedcomputeruse #sob

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    one more thing:




    In the real world they don’t tell you what to do every minute of the day. You are responsible for your own yiras shomaim and limud.

    Also at home a bachur has more responsibility if he helps in house chores. He needs to be parent with his sibling’s. In the yeshiva sometimes you can get everything.

    There are exceptions to both paragraph. Some yeshivot give guys total freedom. Some bachurim have much more responsibility at the yeshiva.


    Syag: And now I’m upset I didn’t say that first

    #busted #pallas #hashtagban


    Right. And you shouldn’t ever make friends, because you may have to say goodbye. And you shouldn’t have children, because they will die one day.

    #livinginthemoment #lifeisshort #wheresthegoodingoodbye


    Basically, the entirely serious and not-at-all jokey message of this thread is that if something interferes in any way with either your comfort or your deeply held principles, then that thing should be abolished. No matter how vital, important and sensible that thing is.

    You matter. And by extension, nobody else does.




    🍫Syag Lchochma

    Beautiful message. In fact I am sure there are many around me who have already made it their life mission to put this into action in every setting, every day. I will devote myself to incorporating it into my life as well. Starting with dinner tonight.

    #shootmenow #whenisayiwantmoshiachireallymeanit


    Basically, the entirely serious and not-at-all jokey message of this thread is that if something interferes in any way with either your comfort or your deeply held principles, then that thing should be abolished. No matter how vital, important and sensible that thing is.

    Um… Am I falling for Poe’s law, or did you really mean that?

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    yekke! yekke! I had so much faith in you!!!!





    Yekke2: Sorry, you’ve suffered from Poe’s Law #irony


    #gettingaheadachefromallthehashtags #toomanyhashtags #maybeinmoderation #excusethepun


    You guys crack me up!




    scrambled eggs! I like that!


    What’s the point of having children if you’re outsourcing their family?

    Do children not need their mother to develop healthy relationships with the people in school?

    Do they not need to know that their mothers both enjoy their time together and yes do miss them when they are away but ultimately want them to become independent?

    Does kicking them out to a school where their love is conditional and comes from strangers make you a better parent because you now at least have a way to say out-of-sight-out-of-mind, giving yourself a safe detached bubble?

    Sorry if this sounds harsh. I do not have children and if someday I do, I pray that I will be emotionally available to handle being a parent. It sounds like you are looking for a way out of being there for your family.

    IMHO perhaps talking about your feelings with a licensed therapist would make more sense than finding a reason that G-d forbid sounds like it is promoting abandonment and/or neglectful parenting.

    Surely you are not asking for that and I assume that you love your sons more than anything, but simply are having difficulty burdening the loss of them when they return to school. When they are home, is their company filling another unmet need when they are not around? Maybe there is part of you that is seeking fulfillment during the remainder of the year. Helping yourself in this direction may give you the confidence to see that you can in fact withstand the separation anxiety each year.

    You can do it and your boys need you.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    lightbrite – it was a joke


    Syag – You were very clearly being facetious. I was worried about NeutiquamErro, because he mixed together one joke and one serious comment. If something interferes with your ‘deeply held principles’, then it should be abolished, regardless of how sensible it may be. This isn’t a joke. The rest of the post, however…

    #snort #confusion #clarification #okayifellforit


    It’s funny (like this milk smells funny funny) to come back see Sam2 using hashtags. Eich noflu hagiborim…

    (agav, nice to see you)


    Toi: I never use hashtags. I just used one here instead of posting “Poe’s Law” because of the nature of the thread. You don’t have to worry about me. I hope. 🙂


    SL – “Cancelling Bein Hazmanim!”

    This year – YES!

    For the last few weeks – All I’ve seen is deaths in Frum community!

    Young people, old people.

    We need more Zecusim – RIGHT NOW!


    It realy depends whats more important for you.. your pain when your boys go back ..or your boys haveing family time when they come home..

    I know I am into a big argument now…

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    absan – It Was A Joke



    My post was intended to be entirely facetious. The ‘deeply held principles’ I was referring to weren’t the kind of deeply held principles you yourself might have, but more the kind of ‘principles’, such as feminism and perpetual victimhood, that certain people use as tools for their ultimately ridiculous aims. I’m happy to elaborate if necessary. I didn’t mean actual sincere beliefs, and I accept full responsibility for the resulting confusion.

    I was going to put the phrase in quotes, but that would have undermined the quasi-serious ironic tone I was aiming for. Which I suppose is a fine example of Poe’s Law in action.

    #nevermore #irony #banpoeslaw #hashtagban


    One thing is certain. Women should be offering their opinions on what Bochurim should be doing Bein H’Zamnin. I was reading a prominent women’s magazine discussing the topic of Bein H’Zmanin and…..Good thing the Roshey Yeshivos aren’t consulting women about what Bochrim should be doing Bein Hzmanin.

    I was a bochur twenty five years ago and the claim that magazine made that 25 years ago even the top bochurim from the top Yeshivos worked during Bein H’zmanin is pure baloney. There were some boucrim who worked a counselors or learning rebbeim and there were some who hocked around in offices making minor money and having a great time with friends. But they were the minority and they weren’t doing it out the sense of obligation this magazine was suggesting.


    You guys are hilarious. I actually started typing up a

    serious response to your first post, NeutiquamErro.


    in lakewood BMG there is no bein Hazemanim. as soon as tisha b’av

    is over they give you a danish & then start yarchei kalla.

    If I’m not mistaken, the Yarchei Kallah is not intended for the avreichim.





    ??? (NE, perhaps you could quote the Scriptures instead of the Script?)

    If something interferes with your ‘deeply held

    principles’, then it should be abolished, regardless

    of how sensible it may be. This isn’t a joke.

    How far does my right to abolish things for this reason extend, yekke2?


    NE, perhaps you could quote the Scriptures instead of the Script?

    Superb. Utterly superb. But to be fair, as regards your confusion, my posts made more sense in context. Feel free to reread them. Bust of Pallas, anyone?



    Superb. Utterly superb.

    Why, thank you! 🙂

    I understand now… (That’s what happens

    when all you know is that it was his sled.)

    #butnoonewasthere #messengerofevil


    Monday afternoon I had to be at JFK International arrivals to meet a client coming in on Swiss International via Zurich. The flight was late. I watched many frum passengers coming out from flights arriving from EY, Europe and Australia. There were many families and girls returning home identifiable by their dress, all types of Yidden of every Chasidic, litvish or MO stripe.

    BUT I also saw at least 100 bochorim returning refreshed from visits home during bein hazmanim eager to return to Yeshiva and start the new zman. I was close enough to hear conversations in which they expressed the joy in having seen family and home, participating in family simchas or simply resting and eating momma’s food, sleeping in their own bed and not following the regimen of yeshivah and enduring dorm life. The bein hazmanim break is as important to the bochorim as their parents and siblings, if not more so…and don’t forget the rebbeim need a break as well.



    That’s what happens when all you know is that it was his sled.

    And just when I’ thought that would be my favourite CR line of recent times, you throw in an excellent reference to my second favourite Kane.

    #spurs #hesoneofourown #donttryundeerstandanyofthat #hashtagban


    I am very, very concerned. Bein Hazmanim is just around the corner and NeutiquamErro and Yekke2 may not know about the CR’s move. What if they go to the old CR and find all the lights off and doors locked. Will they feel abandoned? Will they take their luggage and return to the dorm? Will they think a whole community turned their backs on them?

    I am concerned for their emotional safety and well being.



    Mod29 – Hi!

    <<Bein Hazmanim starts early for me this year – I’m back early for a wedding, and will have some time to post.>>

    Abandoned?! Wrong word. Frustrated, disappointed, betrayed… This new CR is certainly giving me a headache.

    Smiley faces? Seriously?!

    Hebrew!! How many of the CRs most fascinating threads are now lost forever? Is there even a way to recover all the lost treasures? Is there any way to type in Hebrew now?

    We can’t even edit new posts until they’ve already been posted. Surely there’s no good in that! Isn’t the whole point of editing to ensure that we can fine-tune our posts so that it says what we mean it to say without it sounding like something else and without it containing all the horrible things that are liable to have the post blocked by the Mods?

    And who in their right mind allows Joseph to post photographs?!

    About the New Coffee Room Do I Shudder!






    I feel ya…





    Hey there! Glad you found us!


    🍫Syag Lchochma



    And one more day until our return to reality.

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