May 2, 2019 9:30 am at 9:30 am #1721860
Over the past few years, I’ve noticed a disturbing trend in Yeshiva World’s CR forum, one that perhaps isn’t significant enough to fuss over or get hysterical about but, nevertheless, I feel is worth broaching in order to get an idea of its gravity, if not to be convinced of its unimportance.
The subject that I speak of refers to the recent uptick on insensitive or disrespectful comments directed at the Chabad – Lubavitch movement as a whole or, ch”v, at The Rebbe himself, comments which I don’t think need to be put on the map, being that I’m sure anyone who has frequented this forum in the last couple of months – at least – knows exactly what I’m referring to.
What I find equally as disturbing is the fact that the moderators of CR, whose job it is to censor and fact check opinions that are submitted, don’t seem to be doing anything to prevent these comments from being posted, indicating that they agreed, at least partially with what the participants were posting.. Being that CR itself wasn’t doing anything about it, decided to go to the higher – ups and contact YWN itself, and lo and behold, not one of my Emails – out of the many that I sent – received a response! Additionally, whenever I form a response to one of the participants, defending Chabad’s position, my replies are never approved, even though they are much more respectfully written than the others.
The reason why I think this topic deserves attention is because out of all the time periods that existed so far, in the times we live in now where hate and animosity is ever so prevalent, as can be seen from the recent Anti – Semitic attacks that have plagued our nation in the recent months, the only way to combat darkness is by spreading light – light in this context meaning peace and love – not by disparaging and hate-filled comments, designed to disparage and belittle others. I sincerely hope that this disturbing practice will come to a stop with time, as is well known, the main impediment to Moshiach’s arrival is strife and controversy which serve only to separate and distance one yid from another. May we merit his coming speedily in our days Amen.May 2, 2019 10:51 am at 10:51 am #1722191
I wouldn’t call it hate as all Jews are loved, even the mistaken Jews. But part of veahavta is helping Jews go on the correct derech. Chabad believes in this, and so does the litvish, who view violations of the 13 ikkarim as serious. It’s no different than the “snag bashing” on Lubavitch sites which is just pointing out how the snags are wrong for rejecting your moshiach like we do with Yeshu hanotzri.May 2, 2019 10:52 am at 10:52 am #1722193
the moderators of CR, whose job it is to censor and fact check opinions that are submitted
Is that really their job?
I hope notMay 2, 2019 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1722263
This seems to be an attempt to squelch important discussion about Lubavitch because some Lubavitcher allegedly got offended by it.
Well, when you have Lubavitchers here, like “Rebbitzen” attacking others, and her posts are let through, if some people want to respond to them, it is only fair to allow refutations through as well.May 2, 2019 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1722270
Do you go on Chabad forums and say the same thing when Rav shachs name is mentioned
Additionally,moderators aren’t fact checkersMay 2, 2019 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1722272
…and those attacking threads like to make it up as they go along.
If I wanted to hear fairy tales, I’d like to one of these questionable democratic candidates speak at their fake Mueller hearings.May 2, 2019 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #1722265
This (first of the thread) post is like the left wingers on liberal college campuses trying to ban conservative speakers and conservative speech there. Freedom of speech for them is one sided, for liberals. Those who (gasp) disagree with them are labeled as haters. Similarly here, posters such as this one are trying to label those who disagree with Lubavitch as “haters”. But that is not the Jewish way. Disagreeing with something is not the same as being a “hater”. If you disagree with your brother or cousin, does that mean that you hate them? The two should not be confused.
Freedom to post here is not for Lubavitchers only. Lubavitchers have plenty of their own websites online. Those that want a pure diet of Lubavitcher PR and propaganda, with no back and forth or dialogue, can go to such places.May 2, 2019 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #1722312
Let me put it to you this way: Let’s say this forum was full of Open “Orthodox” Jews who look and sound like regular frum Jews, but honestly believe in things such as intermarriage, toevah marriage, and shechita as a tzar ba’alei chayim issue, there would be no end of posts of Torah Jews arguing that they are mistaken and their beliefs are not what frum Yiddishkeit is about, in fact quite the opposite. We wouldn’t hate them. We would just be upset that they were raised to believe in things that are contrary to the Torah and believe that following those things still makes them frum’eh Yidden.
That’s how the overwhelming vast majority of the frum oilom views Chabad-Lubavitch.May 2, 2019 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #1722487
Thank you yserbius for your explanation. I hope those who can benefit from it will refrain from latching onto the oo reference and missing your point completely.
Well done.May 2, 2019 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #1722505
@Defend Chabad:”whose job it is to censor and fact check opinions that are submitted.” So know we’re going to start “Fact Checking Opinions”?! That’s a new one….May 2, 2019 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #1722518
Psalm 97:10May 2, 2019 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #1722538
” Let’s say this forum was full of Open “Orthodox” Jews who look and sound like regular frum Jews, but honestly believe in things such as intermarriage, toevah marriage, and shechita as a tzar ba’alei chayim issue, there would be no end of posts of Torah Jews arguing that they are mistaken and their beliefs are not what frum Yiddishkeit is about”
Funny, the CR actually did used to sort of be that way. They’re all gone now. I assume we were mekarev them and now they’re all too frum for the internet 😉May 3, 2019 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #1722729
@lit while I disagree with @defendchabad that the moderators job is to fact check everything posted I do think that if they’re going to let through all the nasty comments bashing chabad (and I mean specifically the comments bashing chabad not the nicely worded ones that simply disagree with chabad) they should also let through all the nasty comments bashing litvish (or at least the nicely worded ones for that matter that they don’t let through for some reason)
In short it should go both ways if you let people argue against chabad then let people defend them also and if you let people bash chabad then let people bash litvish also
no matter how “nicely” you word it we do not post denigrating comments on gedolim or diefying comments directed towards humansMay 12, 2019 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #1725781
i wanted to say this for so long its ok to bash chabad but noone else?
dont bash anyone at all . chas visholom to bash anyone else but its ok to bash us? No!May 12, 2019 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #1725921
Over the years countless gedolim, Rosh Yeshiva, Admorim, Rabbonim, poskim have come to farbrengen of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, yechidus, dollar line, kos shel bracha. They attended lubavitcher functions and learned the seforim of the Lubavitcher Rebbe.
Is it possible that they were being c”v “mechazek yedei reshoim” – after all, some posted that Sichos have “kefira” in them? Some posted Lubavitcher don’t keep basic halacha (like sleeping in sukka), yet how do these gedolim, including Reb Moshe Feinstein ztzl seek counsel by visiting for yechidus?
Are we all smarter them all the Admorim? Do we stand more for halacha than the poskim like Rav Menasha Klein ztzl?
The posters here bash, while gedolim, Rosh Yeshiva, Admorim and poskim express honor and utmost respect. Their actions speak louder then any posting.May 12, 2019 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #1725951
Visits, learning, yes. Honor and utmost respect? Not so certain that was the case. Respect for Torah knowledge, absolutely. Your words derived from their actions may make you feel good but I have heard otherwise from some family members of those you mention.May 12, 2019 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #1725969
We do emphasize .
it is painful to reassess how You & yours have been indoctrinated .Cognitive dissonanceMay 12, 2019 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #1725973
empathize typoMay 13, 2019 4:31 am at 4:31 am #1726077
“Over the years countless gedolim, Rosh Yeshiva, Admorim, Rabbonim, poskim have come to farbrengen of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, yechidus, dollar line, kos shel bracha…”
Many of them were Hasidic, of Hasidic background, or roots, like Reb Menashe Klein.
Yes, there were some non-Hasidic who at times had some contact, but it was limited. Some of them didn’t fully realize how much Lubavitch had changed under the last Rebbe, and how times had changed in general. When they thought of Lubavitch, they thought of a different Lubavitch of the past, before his reign. One such personality, a renowned Rosh Yeshiva, a great man, was considered like a ‘Chofetz Chaim’, so perhaps he was not aware or didn’t give credence to reports of changes due to his pietistic way of life, and went to be menachem aveil after Rebbetzin C.M. passed away. Nevertheless, the Litvishe world in general, especially as time went by and Lubavitch became more and more openly messianic, distanced itself more and more from it. When Rav Schach ztvk”l zy”a came out against Lubavitch that also made a big impression on that world. It is important to see what date such things occurred, if they occurred at all, and to examine the details and circumstances closely. If a Rosh Yeshiva visited in the 1940’s or 1950’s, it does not mean that he would have necessarily done so at a later date.
As for the claim that Rav Moshe Feinstein z”l, zy”a, ‘sought counsel by visiting the late Rebbe for yechidus’, if you Google Rav Moshe Feinstein yechidus, the first result will lead you to an article that explains it. Basically it says that Rav Moshe was asked by someone he worked with to be mesader kiddushin for his wedding in Crown Heights, which he did. Since he was there, right next to to the late Lubavitcher Rebbe, afterward they met for a while, discussing matters of Klal. The Rebbe asked Rav Moshe a sheila, which Rav Moshe answered. To make it sound like it was yechidus, like when a Hasid visits his Rebbe, is incorrect. Rav Moshe was not a Hasid of the Rebbe, and he was also older than him.May 13, 2019 8:16 am at 8:16 am #1726094
Sad to see so many “frum” Jews speaking poorly of other Jews, tens if not hundreds of thousands of Jews. I wonder if your Rabbis are proud of you. I wonder if they do the same. Doubt it.May 13, 2019 8:43 am at 8:43 am #1726117
Jewish1-you seem to have missed the point in a big way. It is *because* of their rabbis that they make a machaa against certain practices (not the ones practicing, a point that is deliberately twisted by those practicing).May 13, 2019 8:49 am at 8:49 am #1726125
Syag-“We would just be upset that they were raised to believe in things that are contrary to the Torah and believe that following those things still makes them frum’eh Yidden.
That’s how the overwhelming vast majority of the frum oilom views Chabad-Lubavitch”.
Let me translate….most of the “frum oilom” believes that chabad are not “frume”.
Missed the point?May 13, 2019 8:54 am at 8:54 am #1726129
Yes, missed the point. The same way you believe it is sad that their lack of knowledge of chassis us is preventing moshiach from coming. Is that hate? No, it’s following the mesorah you were given.May 13, 2019 10:01 am at 10:01 am #1726131
I did not say that. Don’t put words in my mouth.
Furthermore, since when is loshon hara a “mesorah”?May 13, 2019 10:22 am at 10:22 am #1726221
“In short it should go both ways if you let people argue against chabad then let people defend them also and if you let people bash chabad then let people bash litvish also”
They have let through all the standard Litvish arguments against Chabad and all the Chabad arguments against us. When people cross the line, they usually get modded. I don’t know where you’ve been, but a certain anti-Chabad account or two was getting deleted or edited on nearly every post.
I think comments made my Lubavitchers on another thread, specifically Rebbitzin Goldenpick, about gedolim crossed the line and I was surprised they were let through. The same has clearly happened to you on the other side.
In contrast, by the way, I will grant you that the home page is extremely biased and anti-Chassidishe. They have daily 2 minutes of Satmar hate over there.May 15, 2019 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #1727302
Rav Avigdor Miller on The Superiority of Lubavitcher Jews
Q: Why do Lubavitcher chassidim consider themselves superior to litvisheh Jews?
A: First of all, Lubavitcher chassidim are mostly litvisheh Jews you have to know. They are litvishe Jews. And if they consider themselves superior, so we can ask the same question: Why is it that most non-Lubavitcher chassidim consider themselves superior to Lubavitcher chassidim? Why do Breslover chassidim consider themselves superior to Lubavitcher chassidim? And why do Satmerer chassidim consider themselves superior to Breslover chassidim? And the answer is that all idealists who follow certain systems, they do it because they think it’s the best system – otherwise they’d follow a different system. It’s common sense! What should a man be a Lubavitcher if he thinks something else is better? Why should a non-Lubavitcher be non-Lubavitcher unless he thinks that it’s better. All idealists follow the system they follow because they think it’s the best.
Now, who is going to be the arbiter and say who is the best? Moshiach will come, and in order to keep peace between everybody, he’ll say, “You’re all the best!” And the truth is that they areall the best. But right now, it’s not really a question if the Lubavitcheh feel superior, because if you ask a litvishe yeshiva bochur, he feels he’s superior. Ask a Satmarer and he feels he’s superior. And go into a sefardisheh yeshiva in Eretz Yisroel, go into Porat Yosef, and he’s knows that he’s superior too. Everyone is superior.
And the answer is that’s how idealists have to be. No idealist will do something that he thinks is not superior.
TAPE # 271May 16, 2019 7:56 am at 7:56 am #1727864
It may have been largely the case in the end of the 70s ( tape 271)
could that however be said to be the case today?!
younger people are mostly on the conveyor belt way they were raised And indoctrinated
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