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Whoever can answer this gets a delicious virtual donut (of your choice), there can be more than one winner:
What’s pshat in Moaz Tzur? Why is this sung on Chanuka rather than any other Yom Tov? Why do we mention all other golusim, and our yeshuah from them, now, other than, say, on Pesach or Purim? What makes this zemer most appropriate for Chanukah bedavka?
Perhaps the pytan (inventor of peyut) intended it to be for Chanukah. Perhaps he saw Chanuka as the last of Yomim Tovim (both Torah and Divrei Sofrim) and made an song encompassing all of them.
Donut please. (unboozed)
According to Hazmana l’piyut (an Israeli database of piyyutim zmiros and Hebrew poetry from Elazar Hakalir to the acharonim) it came from Germany in the 13th century and while there are some who claim it wasn’t written for Channuka, most say that it was because in addition to the channuka verse the chorus is about channuka.
Yeah, and what’s with the commonly sung tune? It is unlike any other Yiddishe niggun I’ve ever heard. My family does have an alternate niggun that sounds a good deal more, how shall I say, Jewish but where does the usual tune come from? (note that I don’t call it a niggun)
Where it came from? Didn’t you ever buy a box of candles?
The Piyut leads up to the Ness of Chanuka. That is what we do in the Haggada. You don’t ask if the Haggada was really written for Yaakov’s Hatzala.
As to the tune, it very much matches the time period and location of the composer. It is not that different from the common Adir Hu and Almechtigger Gotte. In addition, you can see that the setup of the Piyut and the style of the tune were meant for each other.
Each paragraph consists of internal rhymes in the pattern of ABAB, BB, CC, B. The tune also starts with double, even phrases for ABAB, picks up and goes on at BB, makes an acception at CC, returning to B.
Moaz Tsur is a Old Germanic Church Music (The Most commonly used tune)
a sefer from the Skulener rebbe (the previous rebbe) about chanuka
includes a long discussion and perhaps a perush on maoz tsur.
I am horrified to hear what ZAHAVASDAD says about the melody but by now maybe it no longer matters.
besides can it be proven?
There is nothing wrong from the source of the tune, A germanic Hymn tune was made into something Kadosh, its really no different than taking a church and making it into a shul
nitpicker, actually many many many chassidishe niggunim are based from old Eastern Eurpean military marches or songs. (From what I have heard)I actually wasn’t in their military.
The Lubavichers sing the Napoleon March (La Marsailles) as a “chassdic Niggun”
I heard one sing it once and I asked him why he was singing the French National Anthem and he said it was a “Lubavicher Tune”
zahavasdad-“Moaz Tsur is a Old Germanic Church Music (The Most commonly used tune)”
SOURCE??!!?
Google and Wikipedia are your friend
Martin Luther also used the tune for many of his Hymns
nitpicker, actually many many many chassidishe niggunim are based from old Eastern Eurpean military marches or songs. (From what I have heard)I actually wasn’t in their military.
There’s a difference between a secular melody and a religious one.
According to edit link removed this, it’s from a German folk song.
Why don’t you tell us the name of the german song, and then we can google it and listen to it.
Because I don’t know it (but I’ll try to look it up).
Found it.
The present melody for the ?anukkah hymn has been identified by Birnbaum as an adaptation from the old German folk-song “So weiss ich eins, dass mich erfreut, das pluemlein auff preiter heyde,”
zahavasdad: “its really no different than taking a church and making it into a shul “
Which is forbidden according to many Poskim. See Mishna Berura and Biur Halacha on 154:11
Also from the Wikipedia you quoted
By an interesting coincidence, this folk-melody was also the first utilized by (Martin) Luther for his German chorales. He set it to his “Nun freut euch lieben Christen gmein <em/>
<b> Which is forbidden according to many Poskim. See Mishna Berura and Biur Halacha on 154:11 </b>
Obviously its allowed since almost all of us use that tune
The most common tune used for “Aleinu” is derived from a Gregorian chant.
I didn’t quote Wikipedia (or even see it). Probably, Wikipedia took it from the same source as I did.
Your quote, by the way, actually confirms that it was originally a folk tune, not a religious one.
Interesting question, though; if it subsequently used in a religious context, does it become assur?
Hello99 was referring to converting a church, not a tune.
Because the neis happened with the menora.
Baal Habooze
Many meforshim say the ikkar of Chanukah is as you say chanukas habayis or chanukas hamizbayach but the reason for 8 days is due to the special neis of the pach shemen that burned for 8 days.
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