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Hi!
I am looking into the option of out of town Kollelim.
Having learnt in Kollel for a number of years/ with a growing family things are getting tighter.
I have heard that there are a number of out of town chassidishe kollelim in various locations.
Does anyone know anything more about them?
How does it work? For a chassisidhe family?
Why aren’t more people doing this?Baltimore has had a Chassidishe Kollel for 8 years. The Mosdos have 150 children bli ayin hora in a daycare (licensed with vouchers), preschool, girls school and cheder up to Kittah Vuv. Chassidishe shechita, solid Eruv and affordable housing. 50 shuls in town including Kedushas Yisroel and the Chassidishe Kollel run by Rav Amrom Jungreis who is the Domet”z in Netai Gavriel Beis Din. They have had over 100 families come for Shabbos and a few dozen are actively looking to buy houses and to move.
Los Angeles has a chassidishe kollel, though I don’t know how people deal with the cost of living there.
Veitzen – Chicago also has a chassidishe kollel.
What makes a kollel chassidish?
150 children altogether throughout the Mosdos. The Kollel has about 20 full time learning Yungeleit. Google Chassidish Baltimore or Baltimore Chassidish Kollel. There are tons of articles and even ongoing programs to incentivize people to move. The Mosdos add a grade every year as the community grows. And there are tons of Chassidim like Rabbi Eichenstein, Rabbi Taub and others who have sent to local Mosdos before the Kollel opened and their kids are 100% Chassidish.
Baltimore has a full preschool and full girls school and a real cheder.
Vouchers for daycare pay for the daycare costs if the mother works or is in school or otherwise qualifies.YO a Chassidishe Kollel has Chassidishe Yungeleit and learns mainly halacha lemaaseh to my understanding. These are serious learning Yungeleit
There are 16 pages of hock and information on ivelt with this title
התיישבות פון חסידישע משפחות אין באלטימאר, מערילענד
Chicago has two Chassidishe Kollelim, one affiliated with Zidichov, and the other with Veitzen. Also Detroit has one, in addition to the ones listed above.
The reason why these kollelem are not in high demand, is because the participant lose out the close affiliation of their respective chassidus and it’s network.
mb10- if you are chassidish, and family growing its time to move on to next stage of life not move out tand kick the can down the road… the out of town kollel model is generally not sustainable for many reasons , these kollelim with the best of intentions need to run 20 ads to get one guy to move out there, chicago offers green cards …
out of town communities are wonderful for those that are there already, but why would you leave NY where you have yiddishkeit & convience times 50..
as far as cost of living “if ” you are chjassidish and belong to a kehilla financialy its not cheaper to be out of town
even baltimore who has a nadvan carrying the financial burden almost fell apart during covid and is not clear what the long term …Detroit It’s nice. They have cheap housing
Chicago is nice too
Both of them you need to get on a plane to reach from new york
Is same with florida and phoenix
Baltimore is affordable and three hours away by car
Meir G
You are 100% wrong. The QUALITY of life out of town is amazing and anyone who left NY to come to Baltimore as an example raves about the trees, grass, kess traffic, healthy living, excellent mosdos etc etc. There is Chassidishe shechita and cholov Yisroel milk and an eruv everyone holds by.
And in Baltimore the Kollel is growing, the Mosdos are growing, working baalei batim are moving to town and housing is cheap. It’s the next Lakewood. Get in on the ground floor!!
mb10-I’ve been out of Chicago for a number of years so it could be it changed. But I was a around when the Zidichov Kollel started so I know a little bit about it.
It’s a halacha Kollel.They learn Halacha in depth and Halacha l’maaseh. As I said it could be it changed, but they chose yungerleit that were chassidish but were open to the litvish culture (ex: speak english fluently) as the shul has chassidish and litvish mispallelim so they wanted everyone to feel comfortable with them and so that they’ll be able to learn with baalebatim.mb10 & baltimore maven – i too am a maven and follow this closely
most of the yungeleit in out of town kollelim are very young & didnt come with 5 kids , and the handful of these kollelim have hardly grown there is no growing treend. detroit , chicago…they had open houses and recruiting…with hardly any success so who is it for … someone who/ or his wife doesnt like ny , or a deep need to feel counted. no one goes just for ” the hefty gelt”, baltimore is a bit diff than the others its closer and of course baltimore is an ir ve’am beyisroel but baltimore has almost nothing to do with the kollel & the kollel has almost nothing to do with baltimore its like a bungalow colony- as an example they dont even daven steadily at the 2 chassidsh shuls in baltimore ( ofcourse everyone is polite & helpful) but its a dif derech..to say it nicely they tolerate each other .secondly baltimore success is only because of the one tzadik who holds out the whole fort
finally as far as kicking the can down the road.. in todays world a yid cannot enter the workforce at 35 when you need a 100 plus to start years ago you had some goyim & a shmatte factory or diamonds..things have changed , dont take my word ask the yungeleit that are there if u should do it & put your own negios on the side ain chochom kbaal nisayonLiving in Chicago I am well familiar with both chasidish kollelim.
Both are extremely chasuv places with excellent yungeleit, very pleasant and geshmak.The Veitzener Kollel is more the williamsburg type, led by R Heshy Unger.
They have about 10 excellent yungeleit.
They recently finished a cycle where the yungeleit were tested on all of Hilchos Shabbos by leading Rabbonim. They really knew the material VERY well.
They recently got a whole new group of yungeleit for the next group.
I think even more are slated to join.Then there is the Chicago Chassidishe Kollel (Zidichov) which is also an excellent place with very chasuveh yungeleit. They have 12 yungeleit, Led by R Zalman Leib Eichenstein.
They are more the regular chasidish style and are a little more diverse.
Very gashmake yungeleit.
They recently finnished Hilchis Basar Bchalav and Taaruvos, and were farhered as well.Both Kollelim are flourishing mekomos shel torah, with new families constantly joining.
Th Chicago Chassidishe Kollel has produced chashuv talmidei chachamim who are well respected in the community.
They have a yungerman who now gives a daily shiur in hilchos shabbos at yeshiva kesser yona, another one is a respected maggid shiur at the famous Telze yeshiva and is extremely well liked, another one gives the chumash b’iyun shiur for 8th grade at the veitzener cheder, another one recently moved to peterson park and is known to know hilchos shabbos niddah basar bchalav and taaruvos cold.I am well acquainted with many of these yungeleit who are very happy and feel extremely comfortable.
Some even bought houses.All in all I think NB10 is 100% right.
These places really give yungeleit the opprotunity to extend their full time learning years by a good 5-6 years, which even if not a long term plan does give them great value that accompanies them even when they move on.The Chassidishe Kollel and kehillah have integrated nicely. Everyone in Baltimore loves and appreciates the Chassidim. They do daven everywhere but that shows they have integrated. There are at least 4 Chasssidishe shuls like Taubs Eichenstein Kedushas Yisroel Sternhills and a fee other nusach sefard shul as well. ..at least two of the Kollel Yungeleit give shiurim at other shuls in the community and upcoming Lag BaOmer bonfire gets hundreds of attendees across the spectrum.
Although I am a proud in towner, I have a couple of relatives who have done this oot chasidish kollel thing
They were all extremely happy and have transitioned BEAUTIFULY when moving on.
I have a nephew who learns in the chicago chasidish kollel that raves about the place. He and his family LOVE the place.I think think this is one of the BEST phenomenon’s in the last 10 years, largely gone unnoticed by many.
Apparently this is a growing trend as more of these places keep opening every few years. The list keeps growing.
While the old ones are still managing to keep growing, plus proving the long term financial stability of such a model despite early skepticism.Can’t speak for every city since I am only in Chicago, but i believe this is true in many places.
Generaly people are very happy and feel very comfortable.(In Chicago you have the “Veitzener Cheder” that is run by R’ Moshe Yossel Unger-The Veitzener Rav of Chicago. The cheder is very yeshivish and has a presense of chassidishe boys as well. They do have a couple chassidishe rebbes. They try to incorporate yiddish as well.)
One of the benefits of living out of town is that the general atmosphere is very accepting (and relaxed), and there is more room for people to be unique.
The saying goes that chinuch is at home. If children grow up in a healthy home they can feel comfortable doing things different than some of their friends, or have different standards about different things.One might say that that is one of the major pluses of the out of town atmosphere.
To be able to grow up with a healthy and confident feeling about what you/your family does. (And not just because everyone is doing it.)It might be hard for an in-towner to visualize, but chassidishe boys out of town do grow up with a very healthy feeling about who they are and what they do.
The bottom line is that from what I know people are happy.
I heard from R Moshe Yosef Unger-The Veitzener Rav of Chicago, that before moving to Chicago 40 years ago to found the Veitzener, he consulted with his Rebbe, R Shlomo of Bobbov, conveying his concerns about his childrens chinuch. (in a city that was 40 steps behind what Chicago has become today.)
R’ Shlomo told him like this;
1. Chinuch is at home.
2. Children out of town grow up healthier than in town. (OUCH… No offense intended..)
He said, look at your shvers kids and you will see that clearly.
With that he gave him his warm bracha.40 years later one can clearly see the truth in his wise words.
Children do grow up with a very healthy feeling about what they do.
And no it does not impact the standards of their yiddishkeit. (Have not found the person yet.)
To the contrary, these kids have a BIGGER bren for their respective values, for those who know.Is there some local support network for the OOT Kollel Yungerleit to transition out of kollel after several years when they are ready to enter the work force part or full time or do they gnerally move back to the major NY/NJ areas once they leave kollel??
Dear Gadol,
It depends on the locale. If the goal is to have a Kollel to build the Community, then the answer is definitely yes. If the Kollel is a self contained idea, then usually not.
Dear Chicago,
Of course, everyone knows that. What’s the chiddush?
Anyone know where @BaltimoreMaven disappeared to?
GadolHadorah: There are many opportunities for those seeking to transition in to the workforce.
R Yaakov Kamenetzky used to say that an out of town kollel is already a “halbe shtele”.My understanding is, that out of town, since there isn’t usually a quarter of a million people vying for every position, one has more of a chance to shine and make a difference.
(Without the need to be the son of a major gvir.)Still, since many of these yungeleit only come for the learning opportunity, many will choose to move back afterwards.
You have the Jewel Osco supermarket where most people shop.
They carry all heimishe products.
Then there is Kol Tuv grocery which also carries all heimish brands.
(There is also Sara’s Tent and also the Kosher section at Marioanos. But less people shop there.)
In general you can almost anything here.
Prices? I think it is a drop more expensive than in NY but not crazy. You could find the same prices in many NY stores.Otherwise (almost) all stores in Chicago carry the hechsher of the CRC (Chicago Rabbinical Council).
In general out of town you will not have the vast selection and conveniences of in town but Chicago is still not a village.
Many people enjoy the very fact of a lifestyle that is a little more simple.From what I know Kollel wives don’t have a problem at all finding jobs. (Here in Chicago.)
Some teach in the local schools. I think there is a strong demand for that.
Others work in local businesses.(There was one who got a high level job at a big frum nursing home company here, and when they moved back she even opened an office for that company back in NY!)
Others choose not to work. Something probably not possible for Kollel families in-town.
Update on the Chassidishe matzav in Baltimore. A few Kollel families have left and others have moved in. Many of the Kollel families are now looking to buy houses. The 20 New townhouses are apparently going up for sale soon.
To answer some questions;
What happens after kitta vav?
Every year the Mosdos hire another Rebbe. There is now a Kitta zayin. The boys are turning 11 this year.For how many years is it stuck by kitta vav?
Never stuck ever. It keeps growing. Now over 150 kids learning in the Chassidishe mosdos.What will happen if Kollel guys leave?
More come, as well as baalei BatimNow is the chance to get in on the ground floor. Eventually Skver or Belz or some other major Chassidus will move en masse to Baltimore
It’s only a matter of time
Baltimore Maven,
It is not a matter of time. There’s a reason Chasidish Kollel members come & go.
Chasidim are anchored in NY & while for me or you Baltimore is fine for a Chasid it’s quite “Out of town”
Baltimore is not Monsey, KJ or Lakewood where it’s easy to be connected to NYC. How long & exhausting is it to drive from Baltimore to KJ in the summer on a Friday afternoon? Most Chasidim are more family oriented & living in Baltimore means you & especially your children will miss those Vach Nachts, Vorts, & other non-major events & attending the big events is exhausting & requires kids missing school & (if they work) parents missing work.
There are many Baltimore Jews that would be fine relocating to a Memphis or Phoenix, but many would not because they would be missing out on a lot
To many Chasidim Baltimore looks like a Memphis or Phoenix. For proper upbringing of their kids, the way women dress at the Baltimore kosher supermarket is very different than in KJ or Boro Park. They’re constantly exposed to English & are a major minority. I grew up in the Baltimore Yeshiva community of old & we felt very different (& not always in a good way) than the majority of Jews in Baltimore & even within the Orthodox community.
The video guy Shloime Z. is a great example. How does he know how to speak & interact in a positive manner with outsiders? Because as he has explained he grew up in a very small Chasidish community where they had no choice but to interact constantly with Non-Chasidim. If you’re ok with your children growing up like that then great but many are not & will insist on staying close to the NY Chasidish communities.Having grown up (and lived) in the Baltimore community for many years, I find it sad that what was once a large and vibrant MO community has dwindled.
Just remember that there is no mitzvah to live in Baltimore, Chicago, Monsey, Boro Park, or any other of the places mentioned in this discussion. Yes, they are all places with nice frum communities, but they are all really OOT from E”Y, the place that matters most.
How do you define “out of town”?
I’ve heard great things about the growth of chassidish communities in Union County, NJ. There is Linden and Union, and I’m told that in Hillside, there will be a group starting out soon. I don’t know if they have a kollel, but there are definitely communities that are growing there.
My only issue is that in Linden, I was told that the Modern Orthodox community there is shrinking due to the chassidim.
Chassidim spread quickly. Soon Teaneck will be the last home of Modern Orthodoxy in NJ!@Takeh, the Mo communities are slowly dying out, average age in a Young Israel is 75 and membership is plummeting, the kids are either going black hat or not frum and FYI we are in golus in EY Oct 7 just proved it.
@Damoshe the MO shul in Linden was barely able to make a minyan, now you have a kosher grocery, bagel shop and mikva things that never existed there beforeWhy has the Baltimore MO community dwindled? Where did they go to?
Da Moshe,
I’ll tell you a great way to define OOT (no it’s not perfect).
How many Jews that work M-F in Manhattan live in Monsey, KJ, Lakewood, Teaneck, Passaic, Union City, Westchester or Five Towns? Quite a few.
How many Jews who live in Baltimore do the same? Zero
Baltimore is not part of the NY region (OOT) because it’s impossible to commute daily (without killing yourself).Takka & Ujm,
Modern Orthodox is not dying in Baltimore. It did somewhat in the past & has changed somewhat but is still strong.
The largest Frum Shul in Baltimore is very diverse with the biggest factions being Yeshivish Modern & RWMO. They built a beautiful huge building that is busier than ever.
Behind them is a Shul that’s always been strongly Modern Orthodox that is growing year by year. SOTC is undergoing massive building. The Shul is packed. They have by far the largest Daf Yomi Shiur in Baltimore (& the world).
Interestingly enough there are many “Ner” guys that Daven there due to the amazing MO YU Rabbi. Baltimore has a flourishing MO Coed Religious Zionist school that is doing well
The main boys school has over 1,700 students (the next one has 700). It’s a mix of MO & YM but also includes more modern as well as very Yeshivish & a growing group of Chasidish who I assume want their sons to receive a strong secular education.
The events at this main school (Hascholas Chumash, Mishna, Gemarah, etc) are still mixed seating. Plenty of Yeshivish men sitting with Their wives at a table with other couples.
MO in Baltimore has moved somewhat to the right but between the MO & very blurred line between Frum YU types & working college educated Ner Israel types the “less Yeshivish” community isn’t going anywhere.This reminded me of a beautiful article I read from a Rabbi describing the first Shul I mentioned seeing it from the outside. Halevi this is what all America looks like. What’s the worst that’ll happen? Moshiach would come? Part of the reason no one is “dying” is because in Baltimore the different factions aren’t at war with each other. In fact they help & encourage each other.
“It is definitely a large shul, not a shteibel. Its specialness struck me almost immediately, from the first davening Friday night. There were too many different kinds of Jews there, and they all seem to get along. I wasn’t used to that.”
“Looking around at the congregants, I saw the largest sub-group, which was people of all ages sporting black hats. But this was no black-hat shul, because there were also a sizeable number of kipot srugot, as well as black leather yarmulkes. We shouldn’t forget the folks in Chassidic garb either. How did they all get along? It was like walking into a time-warp.”
“It is an open question, of course, whether the rabbis made the congregants or the congregants had the depth to choose the proper rabbis. (I would have a hard time not assigning at least some of the credit to the presence in Baltimore of Ner Israel, known for its openness, reasonableness, tolerance and embrace of normalcy.) Whatever the case may be, it was hugely refreshing to be in a shul in which the different components of American Orthodoxy continued davening under one roof, hopefully gaining from the mix of perspectives, and certainly creating an example of unity and tolerance that would be well followed by the rest of us.”Kuvult-to add to your post, I call Rabbi Silber’s Daf Yomi shiur one of American Yiddishkeit’s well kept secrets. 🙂
Not to sidetrack from the beautiful description of Baltimore, but is mixed seating at events something to be conscious about? I understand the history of nonobservant America and the slippery slope argument, but in terms of minhagim, I believe litvishe had mixed seating, and yakkish had mixed shiurim. Baltimore is r Schwab …
In Baltimore I don’t think people are conscious about it but I’m sure many in the more Lakewood or Monsey type places would find it odd.
Mixed seating in Baltimore has always been the norm though some places have changed to fit in in the more Yeshivish world. Ner Israel used to have mixed seating at their banquets but no more.
R’ Schwab had to fight the mixed dances the Frum Shuls held but you’re correct that the mainstream never made a big deal about mixed seating.
“Baltimore is R’ Schwab” there’s no question he played a major role in what Baltimore looks like today. (R’ Schwab helped found Bais Yaakov in 1942, with others)
But I think the real driving factor (& very few would argue) of why Baltimore today is what it is were R’ Ruderman & R’ Neuberger. They built a community where Torah & a Torah lifestyle are the most important while (as the article said) insisting people be “Normal” & also live in this world. They kept the “Kanoyim” from taking over & that’s why you can have multiple Shuls & schools were the makeup is Yeshivish & MO without fighting & actually getting along through mutual respect.AAQ: Rabbi Schwab didn’t have mixed seating. Nor did they have mixed seating in Lita.
they say a story about a Bais Yaakov shabbaton in Baltimore when the speaker announced “All in towners go to the right and all out of towners to the left”
All Baltomorian and Boro Park girls went to the right.
That was 35 years ago. Today it would be Lakewood instead of Boro Park. lol
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