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I was in the country aka Catskills over Shabbos and see there are communities here all year, whether it’s Monticello, Fallsburg, Liberty, Woodridge etc. I also gathered that housing is pretty affordable. One can get an old house in the city for 400k. And one can also buy a winterized summer home for 600k with bedrooms and a basement.
Now each community can nosh off of each other and the summer traffic. Plus it’s an hour from KJ and 1.5 from monsey . Why don’t they build “summer homes” in the country for all year and move there. Why move to FL lake front which is out in mamesh yhupitz.This already exists.
A few corrections…
Monsey is 1hr and 5 min. Not 1hr and 30 min. KJ 45-50 min.
Homes can be found under 400K in some of the Frum areas and good neighborhoods. Newly built year round homes will cost more. Pre-Covid it was 200K-300K homes.
The Chassidim have figured it out. They have already a few year round communities all over Sullivan County.
The Litvaks have dropped the ball in my humble opinion. Everyone just moves to the Lakewood and surrounding areas. With that said there are very good Litvish Dorm Yeshivas besides Fallsburg in the county.With everything I wrote above there are two major issues. Until resolved it is a tough sell for many. Jobs and schools. There are schools but it will not fit everybody’s needs. Jobs are out there in construction and healthcare related fields. White collar not really local unless you can work remote most of the time or do a nice commute.
Personally I have it made it work living up “here”. However it has not worked for everyone and people have moved out.
I always considered our “competition” the really out of town cities. I have always said the same why move to Cleveland or Detroit (and now “Lake Front”) when you can still live in an affordable place and still be close to your family in Monsey/Brooklyn/Lakewood.
The Catskills will continue to grow year-round. No question about it. The question is how quickly. Once mainstream schools are built more people will move upstate to the Catskills…
@Chaim, so who is stopping you?
The reason people don’t do this is that if they did, they would ned to go somewhere else for the summer. That would likely necessitate living in a cramped, rundown house in “the city” for 2.5 months a year at exorbitant prices. Have you seen the prices for bungalows in Boro Park?
But seriously, there are even better options than this, even if they are in what is called yehupitz. How would you like to buy a house for $250-$350k, get vouchers for your kids’ tuition, and be able to find parking and drive without traffic except when you visit your relatives in NY/NJ? So why don’t more people do it? Beacuse it’s just not done. Most people do what most people do because that’s what most people do. The frum community is killing itself beacuse they are not able to think for themselves.
Oh yeah, and the ruchniyus is also better out of town.
This exists and is expanding as well.
I highly recommend it for those it makes sense for.
Florida is a whole different topic.Rocky: The ruchniyos is definitely much much better in-town.
The more frum Yidden you live amongst, the better the ruchniyos will always be.
“The more frum Yidden you live amongst, the better the ruchniyos will always be….”
I’m not sure that the density of streimlach or Borsalinos per sq. km is a statistically valid metric of “ruchniyos”
@chaim87
I am not chassidish.I have owned a shack in the Catskills I inherited almost 45 years ago and don’t use. But there are 3 acres attached and if someone ever wants to develop the failed summer community it might be of value,
That said, I have a Florida home. I am looking at the ice and sleet in Long Island and don’t want to spend my winters in the north. This the appeal of Florida.
Having a FL law license, I years ago opened an office in Boca. Now I have several children and their families living there. I can fly there in 2.5 hours the same time it would take to drive to the country. No thanks, not attractive to meFrankly I prefer it warm
Google the frost dates for Monticello vs Brooklyn
It is a 2.5 month difference
Not to mention that Monticello is still in a Blue State@Chaim87, you never answered the question, who is stopping YOU from doing that????? don’t worry about yennim
UJM I beg to differ with the idea “he more frum Yidden you live amongst, the better the ruchniyos will always be.”
It is true that a person’s environment can have a very strong influence on personal ruchniyus. However, there are various levels of what we call “fum yidden”. If you refer to those Jews who are living the basic shomer Torah life, and their frumkeit centers on externals, with an overemphasis on materialism, I don’t think you can say the more the better. Many (not all) out-of-town communities have a higher per capita rate of bnei aliyathan than those in the larger metropolitan areas.
Another major factor is the high cost in big cities and the need to spend extra time working in order to pay for those costs. That comes at the expense of developing ruchniyus. Also, the emphasis on materialism and crazy Jewish-related mishigasin requires more time working to pay for those studipities.
Many out-of-town communities (not all) have Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva that are greater than those in big cities, and it is easier to access them due to fewer people making demands on their time. Just to name a few Rav Aharon Lopianski, , Rav Shmuel Fuerst (if you consider Chicago OOT), Rav Michel Twerski, Rav Aharon Sorcher, The Philadelphia Roshei Yehsiva (if you consider Philly OOT), Rav Michel Twerski etc.Rocky: That simply isn’t accurate. The in town communities have a higher per capita rate of bnei aliya. And because there are much more of them in town, that helps keep others in line and from falling. There are also many more Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva in town than out.
There is a benefit of living in high-cost areas – you are surrounded by reasonably educated people and you spend so much on housing, you don’t need to prove your worth by making expensive seudos. You can always say – sorry, but my mortgage is too high …
When walking in uman one purim day i met a chashuveh yid from teaneck who was writing a book on the inyan of gefilta fish.
I started shmoozing with him and before i knew it we were both shicker.
I dont remeber much but i remeber he told me he was inspired to write the book cuz of the catskills.
or something like that.UJM: “The more frum Yidden you live amongst, the better the ruchniyos will always be.”
I think some people in New Square might disagree.@chaim87, if your looking at litvisher infrastructure your very limited to Lakewood and Passaic, all the expansion came from within, not from outsiders, I saw on a few prior posts you mentioned your from Hungarian stock, you always can return to your roots.
PS for many years the only year round presence in the mountains was Yeshiva South Fallsburg and Mountaindale, they are still there but are overshadowed, talking about overshadowed I think the chasidisher olam is now of equal size to the litfisher olam in Lakewood
Prices in the Catskills have been steadily rising since the end of the pandemic. So are taxes – it’s still New York state. Job prospects are slim, schools are still a problem. Shopping options? Well, there’s always online. In my humble opinion, a nice place to spend the summer, but not a good place – yet – for younger families to plan a future. Full disclosure: Born and raised in Sullivan County, but now living in metro Philadelphia.
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