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At what number date do ppl check their dor yesharim compatibilty? the fourth or fifth or later???
Before the first! What is the point of wasting time and energy, and getting emotoionally involved, only to find out later that the Dor Yeshorim doesn’t match. I think it is absolutely pointless to go out before checking Dor yeshorim.
If a person is smart, he will check the Dor Yesharim numbers before the couple even go out one time. With all the phone calls that you make to check out a shidduch, this call is easy and they get back to you with an answer about if your kids are genetically compatible regarding the diseases they check for right away. Think about it, what does it matter if everything else matches up perfectly if the genetics are not compatible?Do it before the couple meets or if for some reason it wasn’t done then, don’t let a second date happen before you do it. You will never be sorry nor will you feel like you are pressuring the other side and making them think you are holding by getting engaged when you ask for the numbers in the middle of a shidduch. When the person who designed the system set it up, he made it very clear that you are supposed to check the numbers before a couple meet. If you think it’s too much bother for something that might not amount to more than one date, ask yourself if it may be more important than looking to find out if the other family stacks their dishes at the table or uses plastic tablecloths.
brenberk87-
I don’t think it’s fair to overload Dor Yeshorim with all these requests every time a shadchan picks two names out of a hat.
When I was dating my friends and I used to say it should be checked the date before it starts getting serious (which is obviously different in different circles).
There was only one girl that I requested the numbers be checked by- my lovely wife- but there were two girls that requested that my number be checked against theirs. (They probably felt it was more serious than I did.)
We test it in high school and when we need to by shidduchim (before you date) call in to find out.
Dr. Pepper – in my circles, a shadchan pulling two names out of a hat does not equal a date! A lot of thought and research goes into a name before it becomes a date. I don’t think Dor Yeshorim minds getting phone calls, because that is what they were created for. A girl or boy would mind being pulled out of a shidduch where she / he is already emotionally involved and starting to dream of the future…
I’m surprised Dor Yesharim is not in the computer age. They should have a website that allows for 2 IDs to be input and the result is either a yes or no.
I remember when Dor Yesharim was established. The basis for the universal approval from the gedolim was that the genetic compatiblity would be determined before the couple met, and not “right before it gets serious”. Whoever waits a few dates is violating the original intention of the program.
Numbers should be checked before dating (after all other research and mutual assent). I saw two friends get a no from dor yeshorim – one after a fifth date, and one after a fourth. Both deeply gut wrenching and traumatic for both parties. It’s a phone call. Dor Yeshorim is happy to do it (they write it one their brochure, asking that people check before dating) – just do it. People get a no. Whadaya need it for? There’s enough heartbreak in shidduchim.
Of course numbers should be checked before dating.
I think a reason for not putting it online would be that once you know a number, you may be tempted to put together any possible ones, and would start to figure out who has recessive genes. I think the point is that people shouldn’t know who has recessive genes unless necessary to remove stigma. The point of Dor Yesharim is to help prevent genetic disorders in a way that doesn’t stigmatize carriers.
Pascha. Your concern is not mitigated by requiring a phone call. Whats to stop me from calling every 15 minutes with random combinations?
Practicality. If you’re determined to misuse the system, you obviously can, but they will know something is up if you are calling every 15 min. Whereas people are much more likely to misuse the system if it’s online. (Like where they make tax records available online – yes you can get them by filing a request, but you’re much more likely to check up your next door neighbors’ if it’s just a click of the mouse.)
You will not be able to call Dor Yesharim unless you are the parent of one of the parties and in some cases, the shadchan although D.Y. discourages that. In order to call, you need the each party’s Dor Yesharim number, their birthdate and their control number. Those numbers (not the birthdates of course) should be in a safe place in the parents’ home or in the single person’s possession. There is very little possibility of “bothering” them with random combinations. Besides for the fact that it wouldn’t happen, who has so much time to waste for no useful purpose. If anyone remembers back to the time before Dor Yesharim, they would remember a Tay-Sachs ward in Kingsbrook with a population of Jewish children r”l. A few years ago it was empty, due to the efforts of Dor Yesharim and the compliance of the community b”H. There have been isolated cases and the heartbreak of it is enough reason to go with the system.
superbabi is right, the system makes it hard to play with.
I checked after the 2nd date and think thats the perfect time for standard yeshivish type dating.
Pascha – The only reason why people care is because we are trapped in a society that is obsessed with “Perfection”
If you are of European decent there is a good chance that you have a recessive gene somewhere, or else they wouldnt have started the program because it wouldnt have been an issue.
My Great-Aunt married her first cousin and they had four children who had and died of Niemann-Pick.
Do I have the gene? Maybe. Do I care? No. As long as you dont have the disease, who cares?! We now have this incredible orginization that will hopefully make these dreadful diseases obsolete in the Jewish Community.
in my family its usually done before the 3rd date
Sacrilege – You are absolutely right. Everyone has some genetic flaw. Hashem didn’t make us perfect. We just need to find someone who is “compatible” as DY so well puts it.
Reminds me of the Rabbi Twerski story where this man refused a shidduch for his son because the girl’s mother had a bout of depression. He told Rabbi Twerski, why should i introduce this gene in my family? Dr Twerski couldn’t tell him, due to patient confidentiality, that he had treated this man’s wife before she married him.
It’s been many years since I’ve been out of the “parsha” so some of this information might be out of date.
A friend of mine called to check his compatibility with the girl he had gone out with twice. Back then they didn’t give answers on the spot (I’m not sure if they do now), but called back in an hour or so. He got a call later on from a rov who wanted to meet with him. The rov counseled him and gave him advice on how to proceed from there. This could be very time consuming if a rov had to counsel people after a single date.
There are also cases where one party has more tests done than the other and Dor Yeshorim has to go back to do additional testing on the preserved blood sample of the other party. This is a huge expense absorbed by Dor Yeshorim and not passed on to the individual. In many instances the individual doesn’t even know what is going on.
Of course if one is Chassidish they should check before the sit in, otherwise I think people should wait for a few dates. (Or you could always just call Dor Yeshorim and ask them yourselves.)
Just keep one thing in mind- make sure you and your date are on the same page. If you check after the first date your date may be getting the impression that you are ready to get engaged.
Pascha. the controls put into place for a phone call are the same that can be put into place for a web based application.
You are negligent if you do not check before the first meeting. Indeed, I believe that is what Dor Yeshorim encourages.
Dr Pepper: If you check before meeting, it eliminates the need for counseling by a rav.
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popa_bar_abba-
If a potential couple do the check the date before it starts getting serious (obviously different for every circle, in my circle it was after the shadchan is dropped), it will also eliminate the need for counseling by a rov.
Checking before the first date will be a gross misuse of tzedakka funds, in my opinion, as statistically speaking a first date usually gets nowhere and generally speaking people aren’t too emotionally attached after two or three dates to be devastated.
Like I mentioned above there are cases where blood has to be retested at a great expense where the parties involved don’t even know what is going on in the background.
Of course if you are part of a circle that has different needs then the above doesn’t apply.
But if you are in doubt just give them a call, they’re there to help.
Doc:
Again, I’m pretty sure they encourage checking before the first meeting.
Also, if we assume the average cost of a first date (rental car, gas,tolls?, drinks) is about $75, it is not clear that it is more efficient to do the date.
The average cost of processing a request is pretty low. It does not usually involve additional testing, and if we assume they will both eventually call, the additional testing will be done anyway.
To complete the analysis, we would need to know the percentage of matches which are incompatible. I think it is pretty low, which helps your case- since most first dates will not be thus wasted.
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In any event, my experience is that not checking beforehand can lead to very needless stress, and also a ridiculous formality of “checking the numbers”. As I once told a girl, “When we have a relationship, I’m not going to express that by hinting, I’m going to say, ‘I like you, we have a relationship'”.
I got my dor yesharim blood test right at the end of last year- just a couple of short months ago. The lady there was literally begging us to tell our parents to check BEFORE even the first date. She said it shouldn’t be the first thing you inquire from the other side but she was begging us to do it before you go out at all! She also did mention that it’s NO BIG DEAL and that they would prefer to to check millions of extra times then to have even one person told they are not compatible at any stage of dating
i personally did not get tested, so im not sure how it works when you call up, but i thought that they dont give info to people who are too invested in a relationship (im not even sure at what point that would be, as some people know after the first date and others go out for a few weeks or a few months)
If a couple is already engaged, I think Dor Yesharim will not deal with them.
Dor Yesharim is a wonderful tool, but it is not infallible. A friend’s child and the prospective shidduch both checked with D”Y and were found to be genetically compatible – BUT – D”Y did NOT check for a gene that causes a particular non-life-threatening condition, and as it happened both the boy AND the girl carry this gene, and their children were born with the condition. All of genetics is in G-d’s hands, and while I strongly believe that D”Y has helped to eliminate a great deal of tzaar that might otherwise have occurred, nonetheless not all things are in our control even with D”Y.
My daughter and son-in-law checked around the second or third date, when they started to realize there was something potentially there.
oomis – it says on their brochure what they check for. Its not realistic to expect them to check every gene out there.
Oomis, I don’t think that D”Y checks for many non-life-threatening diseases. I’ve not seen their brochure in some time, though.
There are many unfortunate genetic conditions r”l that do not as yet have tests to identify them or prevent them from occurring. Dor Yesharim tests for specific genetic diseases. When they say a couple is compatible, it is only for those eight or nine conditions and not for the hundreds that there are no tests for at this time.
h2 & popa_bar_abba-
If that is the case then I stand corrected.
As I once told a girl, “When we have a relationship, I’m not going to express that by hinting, I’m going to say, ‘I like you, we have a relationship'”.
The guys usually don’t realize they have a relationship until after 60 years of marriage with constant reminders from their wife. At most, they have some vague idea that they have this ‘thing’ and that it may be important.
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