Chief Rabbis of France and South Africa

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  • #1988450
    smerel
    Participant

    How does someone become chief rabbi in those countries?

    Unlike most countries where chief rabbi is to a large degree a political appointee I was told that in France and South Africa he is actually elected in community wide elections.

    Is that correct? Do all Jewish communities vote on and then accept the authority of the chief rabbi?

    I would also like to know if there is any country (not city) where who will be the chief rabbi is decided on by an internal decision of the Jewish community, without government input and he has his authority recognized by all or most Jewish groups in that country.

    #1988463
    ujm
    Participant

    As far as his authority, even the Chief Rabbi of Great Britain has no formal authority in religious matters. Any Jew can, and very many do, completely disregard him in all religious issues.

    The same principle applies in France and South Africa as well as, to a somewhat lesser degree, even in Israel.

    #1988533
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Does anyone think we need a “Chief Rabbi” here in the United States??If so, would the official residence be located in BP, Willy, Crown Heights, Monsey or Lakewood?

    #1988555
    IYK
    Participant

    If we had a chief rabbi, would we give him COVID?

    #1988554
    ujm
    Participant

    Gadol: New York had a Chief Rabbi.

    #1988580
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    The title of Chief Rabbi is absurd, even in Israel its a toothles tiger for example in Jerusalem majority of the frum people there follow the Eida or Baba Boruch over the Chief Rabbinate.
    There are 3 people claiming to be the Chief Rabbi of Ukraine including one who lives full time in Brooklyn, 2 people claiming to be the Chief Rabbi of Russia, the Chief Rabbis of Albaina and Bulgira are not recogized by the handfull of Jews still remaining there.
    Someone who lives in Brooklyn calls himself the Chief Rabbi of Galizia an entity that has not existed for over 100 years.
    Any nominations for Chief Rabbi of the CR?

    #1988612
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    For those of us over 60………………………..

    Too many chiefs, not enough Indians,

    #1988677
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    This is what caused the prohlem for Rav Yakov Yosef ztz’l. It was not expressed clearly what is central responsibility and what is local, so the local rabbonim revolted as the civil war where the states revolted against the Federal government.

    #1988693
    Avi K
    Participant

    The Chief Rabbi is mainly an administrative position although in Israel they are usually members of the Supreme Rabbinic Court. In America, the equivalent would be the President of a rabbinic organization.

    #1988691
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    I nominate Reb Elizer as Chief Rabbi of the CR

    #1988757
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    CS, I appreciate your confidence. I can suggest halachas to follow but I don’t have the broad shoulders to be responsible for CR peoples actions. I rather would nominate as his name indicates GH, Gadolhadorah.

    #1988752
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “Any nominations for Chief Rabbi of the CR?”

    Well, if Reb E is reluctant to take on additional responsibilities, there is apparently some Galiztianer Rav in Brooklyn with time on his hands who might be willing to take the CR tzibur under his wings.

    #1988776
    IYK
    Participant

    If we appoint a CR for the CR, will we be able to make minyan here and get aliyos here? Who wants to be the kohen? The latest gimmick is to tell the kohen to leave shul so the rabbi can take his place at the Torah. People forget that being a kohen came with the possibility of becoming a kohen gadol, where people prayed for his death. They think there will be no repercussions for assuming the kohen’s position by the Torah as a bimkom kohen. As there is no respect anymore for kohanim, the world no longer respects rabbis. Midah kineged midah…

    #1988765
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I have the time. If I suggest a halacha to follow, you must validated with your LOR as circumstances not known by me determine halacha. Rebbi Moshe Feinstein ztz’l did not want his teshuvos translated for this reason.

    #1988794
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The prerequisites for a CR CR, is a Rav who has learned at Yeshivos Adas Yereim, Wiener and Chasan Sofer, is known to be machmir on kulahs, has posted at least 5,000 teshuvos in the CR, and is not intimidated by Mod 29.

    #1988796

    😊

    #1988809
    Avi K
    Participant

    RE, that is why as soon as he passed away they were translated.

    #1988849
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @IYK “If we appoint a CR for the CR, will we be able to make minyan here and get aliyos here? ”
    You are mixing up a shul rabbi with a Chief Rabbi, a chief rabbi never get bogged down with such mundane stuff like who is a cheyuv for the amud or who get an aliya,
    in fact quite a few chief rabbis never step foot in the place where they are chief rabbi in, for example the chief rabbi of Amsterdam has a shteller in Flatbush, the chief rabbi of Ukraine lives in BP as does the chief rabbi of Galizyah a postition that only exists in his imagination.

    #1988899
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    If they follow my suggestions and do not question their LOR, will have the blame on their head.

    #1988887
    IYK
    Participant

    commonsaychel:
    Got it. Thanks.

    #1988913
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    any other nominations for CR of the CR?

    #1988986
    IYK
    Participant

    The old story of the question asked to Israelis “in whom can we trust to run this country?”, where everyone replied !בי! בי, resulting in Netanyahu assuming the position of power…

    #1989006
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “The chief rabbi of Ukraine lives in BP as does the chief rabbi of Galizyah, a position that only exists in his imagination…”

    I was intrigued to learn more about the imaginary world of the Galizianer Rabbanus noted by two prior posters. First I thought it was a troll but then discovered that indeed, HaRav Edgar Chaim Baruch Yona Gluck, a yekkeshe rav now living in Brooklyn but born in the Alte Hiem, insists that he is truly the Chief Rabbi of Galicia (a country dissolved after WWI.
    According to an online search, Reb Gluck, is not entirely a looney tunes character. He got semicha back in the 70s from from Yeshiva Chasam Sofer (which I’ve admittedly never heard of) but was also appointed in the 80s by Speaker of the House Tip O’Neill, as a member of a government agency called the U.S. Commission for the Preservation of America’s Heritage Abroad. Does anyone know how/why/when Reb Gluck was “appointed” as Galizianer Rebbe-in-Chief since the country disappeared 100 years earlier (and no bad Litvish jokes please).

    #1989022
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @GH,
    On May 18, 1804, Napoleon proclaimed himself emperor, and made Josephine Empress. His coronation ceremony took place on December 2, 1804, in the Cathedral of Notre-Dame in Paris, with incredible splendor and at considerable expense.
    Napoleon surprised everyone by not allowing the Pope to crown him. Instead, he placed the crown on his own head, and then crowned Josephine Empress.
    Hey if it works for Napoleon it could work for Rabbi CB Gluck

    edited

    #1989037
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Common Saychel: Thanks for the historical context. So I guess any of our regular posters could “appoint” himself/herself/itself (preferred pronoun) as chief Rav, Rabbanit, Rebbitzen, or Baal Habaas of the CR (or perhaps the latter term is reserved for the Mods).

    #1989046
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @GH, Dont forget we also need to fill the Rosh Hakhal,Gabbi, Shammos, Mikva Yid [for the Chasidim], Sar Hamskim of the Kiddush Club, the ssssssshher and the candyman, I think I will appoint myself candyman and will ask Reb E to officate at my hachtara.

    #1989048
    IYK
    Participant

    There already is a google hador. Now, in the CR, there is talk of appointing a harav hagoon…

    #1989256
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Besides nominating Reb E as CR of CR, I would like to nominate GH as the Associate Rabbi, Mod 29 as the Gabbi, Health as the shuls Hatzolah Memeber, CTLawyer as the Rosh Hakal, AAQ as the person who always aruges with the Rabbi after he give the Drasha and aruges with the gabbi about the davening times and kibbudim, UJM as the mikva yid.

    #1989267

    That’s perfect! I second all nominations.
    😁

    #1989372
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Oh I forgot to add two other nominations, Syag as the Rebitzen and Amil Zola as the lady who cant stand her

    #1989341
    IYK
    Participant

    Who’s going to be head of kiddush club?

    #1989366
    IYK
    Participant

    The reason we need someone to be head of kiddush club, is we need someone to be willing to make a kiddush hashem…

    #1989383
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Commonsaychel – thank you for validating my observation. For some odd reason I find comfort in that.

    Regarding the nomination…would I need to learn how to make potato kugel?

    #1989386
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Lusksen [noodle] will be just fine, a Kokosh cake will win you some points with Reb E being that he is a fifty sixer

    #1989414
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    July 9th will be 62 years being in America coming here after 2 1/2 years waiting for HIAS to immigrate in Austria DP camp Asten close to Linz in wooden baracks.

    #1989425
    IYK
    Participant

    I nominate myself to be the lone FFB who snoozes through the whole davening peacefully in shul, yet accomplishes more during that sleep than everyone who is davening.

    #1989467
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    To really score points with Reb E serve káposzta instead of holipitz at the Simchas Torah Kiddush

    #1989473

    RebE, mazel tov!

    Yoma addressed the issue of Chief Rabbis at the end. R Hanina refuses to accept an apology from Rav for 13 years because he saw a dream that Rav will be a Rosh Yeshiva (hanging on a palm), so he did not want to retire or die, and made Rav make yerida to Bavel where he became the Rosh yeshiva. So, this is clear that there is one Chief Rabbi at a time, Israeli and Russian customs notwithstanding.

    #1989474
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Reb E: Happy 62nd Anniversary. America in general (and the CR tzibur specifically) are fortunate you made the trip. Hopefully, the next 62 years will be as satisfying for you.

    #1989495
    IYK
    Participant

    Okay. I get it now. We’ll see how this plays out…

    #1989496
    IYK
    Participant

    History has just repeated itself. IYK has left the chat.

    #1989501
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Reb E- I’m confused. You left the DP camp 62 years ago? In 1960?

    #1989581
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I left Sopron, Hungary February 12, 1957. here Lincoln’s Birthday being 9 years old. Three months we were in Viena Continental Hotel and taken to Asten being there until Jully, 9, 1959. When coming here, we were two weeks in Broadway Central Hotel at Bleeker Street, NYC after whidh we moved to Crown Heights until May 1972 when married and moved to Boro Park. In 1977 moved to Staten Island. Adopted to children, a boy and a girl. Ny wife passed away in April, 2010.

    #1989602
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    And also, in between obtaining advanced degree in mathematics, still managed to accumulate more daas torah than a large percentage of p/t shteigers could ever imagine and which he routinely shares with us in elegant, understandable and non-judgemental posts.

    #1989650
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    GH. thanks for your praises. I consider myself a talmid chacham being a talmid mechacham, a student from a chacham, is like an astronaut who the more space he conquers realizes how much more there is to conquer.

    #1989662
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @GH
    “And also, in between obtaining advanced degree in mathematics, still managed to accumulate more daas torah than a large percentage of p/t shteigers could ever imagine and which he routinely shares with us in elegant, understandable and non-judgemental posts.”
    Was that the nomination speech for Reb E for CR of the CR?

    #1989656
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Speaking of mathematics, the Binah Leitim 3rd Darush for Parashas Eicha, explains how the placement of a word in the brocho of Moshe Rabbenu changes its meaning for the better. It says in Parashas Devorim, Hashem Elokeichem yosef aleichem kochem elef pamim, where it should have said, elef pamim kochem? This converts it from a finite brocho to an almost infinite brocho. Hashem should double your current count (kochem) and repeat the doubling a thousand times. The amount will be 2 to the thousand power. It is a number containing 301 zeroes according to the logarithm of 2 which is equal to .3010 when multiplied by thousand will be 301.

    #1989710
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    This is the number with 301 zeroes which multiplies their current population of 600,000.

    #1989806
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Great segue for a mathematician to use gematriah to share a vert for Ti’sha B’av.

    #1989847
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Chasam Sofer explains the statement, kol hamisabel al Yerusalaim zoche veraeh besimchasa, whoever mourns the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem will be able to see its rejoicement. A dead person l’a is after twelve months forgotten from the heart, but by his mourning, he shows that for him, the destruction of the temple is not dead and forgotten, therefore, his needs to rebuild Jerusalem with the temple will also not be forgotten and be able to see its rejoicenent.

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