Chosson Card on Display – WDYT?

Just to end off, your relationship with your spouse, which is hopefully as beautiful as you make it sound, is the biggest treasure in the world

just to illustrate the importance of commas in bringing clarity, read the above sentence without the first comma.

Please capitalize HKBH’s name when used.

Thank you.

The Wolf

Just curious – is one allowed to show affection to their spouse in front of their kids?

is one allowed to show affection to their spouse in front of their kids?

As one famous Rav explained it to me:

“Our kids get to see us fight and disagree. Why shouldn’t they see that we can love each other too?”

The Wolf

Do we not have enough things to say are untzniusdig, that we have to pick on such naarishkeit as this? I think it’s romantic and loving if the chosson DID write it himself. If not, what’s the kasha altogether? Nice to see a young frum man who is not afraid to express his feelings. As with all things of this nature, if you don’t like it, DON’T DO IT.

“Our kids get to see us fight and disagree. Why shouldn’t they see that we can love each other too?”

That can be done without “showing affection” (I guess it depends on how one defines “showing affection”).

Now that’s the problem. If you’re gonna fight (and I don’t recommend it), at least save it for when the kids aren’t around.

In theory, I agree with you 100%. But that doesn’t mean that it works that way in practice.

For the same general idea why you wouldn’t show affection in front of neighbors.

I won’t appear in front of my neighbors in anything other than full dress. Does that mean that if I get up in the middle of the night, I should fully dress before heading out to the bathroom? Is wearing pajamas and a robe not acceptable?

Or is it possible that the members of one’s household are a bit closer to you than the neighbors and can/should see some things that neighbors don’t?

The Wolf

Or is it possible that the members of one’s household are a bit closer to you than the neighbors and can/should see some things that neighbors don’t?

I agree, but one must be very careful where to draw the line. Seeing affection is not the same as seeing pajamas.

I can’t say running around your house in pajamas is an aveira, but I know of an adom gadol whose children never saw him in pajamas.

I didn’t say pajamas, I said pajamas and a robe.

Do *you* get *fully dressed* before going to the bathroom in the middle of the night?

The Wolf

On second thought, don’t bother answering, because it’s really beside the point.

Can’t we simply agree that one’s immediate family is closer than one’s neighbors and that they will can (and should) have greater access to your private home life than your neighbors?

The Wolf

Wolf. I don’t know why you’re waisting so much time defending your position

I’m a glutton for punishment.

writting a loving note to your spouce is perefectly OK. So is holding hands and even a loving peck on the cheek. If you don’t like it don’t do it

You know, there is a stereotype out there that yeshivish and chassidic marriages are not very loving because they didn’t get to know each other before the wedding and they only dated X number of times or the marriage was arranged or whatever. But then they turn around and say “no, our marriage is very loving.” Without any evidence to the contrary, I’m inclined to believe them when they say this and disregard the stereotype.

But then, some of the same crowd say that it’s assur to express love to your wife or to show affection or the like, even in private*. So I’m sometimes left to wonder how these marriages can *possibly* be loving if the couple wasn’t allowed to get to know each other well beforehand AND they’re not allowed to show affection even in private *after* they’re married.

I’m forced to conclude that either the stereotype is correct (which I don’t really believe) or else some people say one thing but secretly do another.

The Wolf

*(Or, as MR so eloquently put it: …things of affectin between manand wife should be kept as little as possible and even then what theyre is should be kept private. Writing love notes is goyish and chukas akum. )

now there is something wrong with PJ’s??

It depends who you are. I do my whole morning in pj’s up to taking the kids to the bus stop – I slip on a long skirt, button my coat and voila! One friend doesn’t step out of her room in pajamas and one has days where she doesn’t get dressed if she doesn’t go out!

my son wrote on the florist’s little card “To: ___, I’m so happy you’re going to be my wife! From: Your Chossen”.

OTOH, at my daughter’s vort there was this HUGE, shmancy floral arrangement (the biggest waste of alot of money IMO) with a long, printed poem that we all “awww”ed over, that my daughter’s future shvigger had ordered (for the Chossen) along with the flowers. BTW- a few days later Hostess International called us that they were coming to pick up the vase that the arrangement had been made in. …no comment.

my son wrote on the florist’s little card “To: ___, I’m so happy you’re going to be my wife! From: Your Chossen”

I LOVE that!!!!!

As to the fancy shmancy flower arrangement you mentioned – if his MOTHER has to order it and sign his name, kinda defeats the purpose, no? Although I am intrigued with the idea of the boy’s mother sending such an arrangement to the kallah and saying, “I am so happy you will be my new daughter. Welcome to the family!”

Nevertheless, even though it is less restricting in front of immediate family, there still are restrictions even then.

Of course there are restrictions even then. There are things I won’t do even in front of my kids. But that’s not the same thing as saying that there can’t be *any* affection in front of the kids.

If I had to live my life where I had to be on-guard against showing any emotion except when we were alone in the bedroom, where I could not be myself in front of my kids and close family (and yes, loving my wife is a *very* big part of who I am) and where I had to treat my wife as simply my roommate in front of everyone else, I’d probably become miserable *very* quickly.

The Wolf

and it’s nice seeing how they save most of it for just the two of them.

And if that works for them, then all the more power to them. I’m not condemning anyone else’s choice of how they relate to their spouses — I’m just railing against those who say that it has to be “my way or the highway.”

The Wolf

Go back to two fingers.

mikehall

We all use speech, body language and actions to express our emotions. Sometimes it’s outright, and sometimes it’s subtle.

Most people pick it up even when its subtle, although some are more perceptive with these things than others.

…or some look where they shouldn’t be 😉

I’ve got one question here. When someone makes an obvious expression of love in public (kissing, affectionately holding hands etc), why are they doing it in public? Is it because:

2) They, for whatever altruistic reason, want others to see it.

oomis1105: I do not find these cards to be untzniusdig or objectionable in any way.

Neither do you find it objectionable for a husband and wife to lock arms while walking in public. Correct?

The Wolf,

I’m forced to conclude that either the stereotype is correct (which I don’t really believe) or else some people say one thing but secretly do another.

Or, perhaps, you are debating with people who themselves are not married yet.

Funny.

“If you are confident with your relationship you dont need to convince others. “

If yur confidnet you dont have to convince yurself either.

do you think the gedolim write love notes to theyre wives? do you thnk any ben torah does?

Men adn women are not supposed to be romantick even with theyre wives. Ezra made a takana that men shouldnt be aitzel nishosayhem ktarnegolim and pirkey avos sez the same thing. Husbands and wives are partners not friends not boyfriend and girlfreind or even romantic partners. They are bulders of a bayis neeman something that has to be done with the utmost kedussha.