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Is a Chosson Shas standard and is it wrong to expect one?
Depends who’s asking.
A Choson without a Choson Shas is like a Kallah without an engagement ring. If she doesn’t expect that engagement ring (which has no Jewish basis anyways) I can hear him not expecting a Shas.
Sorry, but you cannot spend someone else’ money. A set of Shas is VERY expensive and some in-laws just cannot afford it.
Regarding engagement rings, often the stone is CZ, for those parents who cannot afford the real thing, OR often, the stone (from the girls or guys family) is passed down and reset, again because diamonds are very very expensive.
It is important to have NO expectations regarding gifts. You are owed nothing beside love & respect.
Actually, a chosson without a chosson shas is like a kallah without a kallah shas. Besides, what has he been learning from until now? Presumably if he is serious about learning he already has a shas or at least a good portion of a shas.
Nedarim 89b:
???? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ?? ????? ??????
Ran sham:
???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???????? ???? ??? ???????? (?? ??:) ????? ?????? ????? ?????
Only if the chosson hasn’t learned it yet.
A choson shouldn’t need a Shas. He should know it by heart.
A kallah without a diamond ring is like a chosson without a diamond ring. Some are machmir on the kiddushin ring as well.
I tell all of my sons-in-law that if they want me to buy them a chosson shas, they have to buy one for me as well. Sure, I’m supposed to marry my daughters off to talmidei chachomim, but they’re also each supposed to marry a bas talmid chacham!
I did not get a chosson Shas. My Father-in-Law asked me if I wanted one, and I told him I already had a Shas I’d been using for years. Instead, he bought me other seforim which I did not yet have.
PAA: Presumably if she likes rimgs she has one already. And there’s no more mizvah to buy her an engagement ring than there is to buy him a Choson Shas.
Lior: Actually, engagement rings came from Judaism.
Chochom-ibber: I have seen enough Shidduchim broken up over the Chassan asking for a too-expensive Shas (and the Kallah expecting a too-expensive ring). It’s just stupid. It’s a nice custom. If they can’t afford it, that shouldn’t cause fights in the family.
PAA: Presumably if she likes rimgs she has one already.
It’s very possible. However, most human beings have ten fingers (and you can even double up) so having one ring is hardly a reason not to get another ring. Additionally, the engagement ring will probably be nicer than the previous ring. As opposed to a shas where the first shas obviates the need for the second shas.
Sam: Where in the Seforim HaKedoshim, prior to the de Beers diamonds-are-forever marketing campaign, has engagement rings (not wedding/chupa rings) been mentioned as a minhag and among which communities?
What Judaism certainly has contributed to societal wedding practices is the white kallah dress.
“The engagement ring will probably be nicer than the previous ring.”
PAA: Like her possibly wanting a nicer ring, he might want a nicer Shas with more meforshim.
Is a Chosson Shas standard
jussayin it is standard.
is it wrong to expect one?
forsure dont fight about it but i dont see why not to expect one.
Some advice to make your life a little easier…
… don’t expect gifts. If they happen, then great – you’ve gotten a bonus. But don’t expect them as if you’re entitled to them.
You’re not entitled to a chosson Shas – even if it’s “standard.”
And besides, what are you going to do if you don’t get it? Break up with the girl? Potentially ruin your sholom bayis over the next few decades by nursing a grudge against your in-laws for not giving you a Shas?
Just let it go. If you get one, great. If not, just start saving to get yourself one in the future.
The Wolf
I agree with Wolf. That’s good advice for a chosson.
If the person asking was the kallah’s father, though, I would probably tell him to buy it.
WolfishMusings,
You’re not entitled to a chosson Shas – even if it’s “standard.”
Perfectly stated.
for many its more of a decorstion i know people thst have beutiful sefurim that they never learn from
i hear, ur saying its a vize. It’s possible but check into it, maybe he has a shitta against giving a chosson shas, like the people above. also even if her parents are big fat jerks, she can still be sweeter than honeycake gumdrops
Chochom-ibber:
I was also referring to a physical Shas. I was assuming that if the chosson learned Shas (or parts of Shas) then he would already have a physical set (or partial set) of Shas.
Sam, I have seen enough Shidduchim broken up over the Chassan asking for a too-expensive Shas (and the Kallah expecting a too-expensive ring).
Nebach. Two differences, though. The most expensive chosson shas is probably less expensive than the least expensive engagement ring, and the difference between a cheap chosson shas and an expensive one is relatively small, while an engagement ring can range from around $2,000 until, well, ein l’davar sof.
A stainless steel ring with a CZ, which is actually just as beautiful as gold with diamond, can be purchased for under $30.
That’s what I got for my wife. Don’t tell her.
A shas is standard…in my circles. A friend of mine, who comes from a different background, didn’t get one.
Should you expect one? Well, if your question is if you should buy a bookcase, then maybe yes. If your question is if you should be upset if you don’t get one, then the answer is def not! Why let a gift get in the way of your lifelong happiness of getting married to your bashert!
Mazel Tov! May you be zoche to build a Bayis Ne’eman B’Yisroel.
How about a nuk nuki preloaded with 2500 seforim?
“Actually, a chosson without a chosson shas is like a kallah without a kallah shas.”
So a kallah without an engagement ring is like a choson without an engagement ring.
Lior:
If what you mean to say is that instead of getting a chosson shas he should get an engagement ring, then sure.
If his only choices were an engagement ring or nothing, certainly it is best he take nothing.
I said if the choice is between an engagement ring and a chosson shas.
Actually, a chosson with Shas but without the 24 books of Tanach is like a kallah without her 24 adornments, as you can see in my magnum opus http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/for-pulsing-flower-to-rant-about-iyun/page/5#post-530932 although there I quoted the Medrash Rabbah which doesn’t say it explicitly so here I’ll quote the Yalkut Shimoni:
?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ??”? ??????? ?? ?”? ???? ????? ??? ??”? ?????
and the Abarbanel has an alternate girsa, quoted in Toldos Adam Perek 3:
??? ?’ ???? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? (??? ??? ?’ ???? ???? ????) (?? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???????) ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ?’ ??? ???? ????
When rivka got engaged, eliezer didn’t give her an engagement ring, but he gave her a nose ring, so from now on all kallohs will be getting big nose ring
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