April 6, 2011 12:23 am at 12:23 am #596136
I was talking to my father just before and mentioned that B”EH when I meet the right guy I want to have clarity that he is the right one for me, and that he is what I am looking for. My father said that most people dont have that clarity-it seems like this is someone they can marry and therefore they get engaged without really knowing.
I said that if you daven to H-Shem that you will have that clarity, when needed, and trust that He will give you that clarity to make the right decision, my father said that H-Shem doesnt neccesarily give you everything you ask for. I asked-isnt having clarity good for you? And my father said that we dont know what is good for us.
I am wondering-is my father right? Or do people who really Daven for clarity and trust that Hashem will help them- and also know themselves, what they are looking for, and what is best for them, end up being much more clear that their shidduch is right for them and get what they need…?April 6, 2011 1:47 am at 1:47 am #761911cofeefanMember
this is something i am TERIFIED of!! how can i be sure?!? its so scary!! i hope Hashem answers tefilos for clarity!! its something so important!April 6, 2011 1:56 am at 1:56 am #761912
I want to shoot everyone who uses the word “clarity”. It annoys the blazes out of me.April 6, 2011 3:10 am at 3:10 am #761913
I could use some thought organization as to what is happening and what to do. Going through multiple rough periods simultaneously doesn’t help one think clearly and in an organized fashion to be able to work out that which needs working out.
Poppa: there, I didn’t use clarity, happy? 🙂
😀 Zuberman! 😀April 6, 2011 3:22 am at 3:22 am #761914smartgalMember
Keep davening for clarity–It does work!!! I am BH extremely Happily married and one thing I always davened for hard was to have clarity and I did !! I went out with close to 50 guys and when I met my husband it just felt sooo different than being with anyone else, After the 5th date I knew I wanted to marry him and did 🙂 so keep davening for clarity and anything else you find important such as middos!!!April 6, 2011 3:35 am at 3:35 am #761915
Right now I am inclined to be skeptical of achieving clarity and working everything out just because of what is going on but that is just the rough patch talking. I just want to be over and through with the rough patch at least.
Sorry for the bitterness/kvetching I do really try to keep it out of the CR as it puts a damper on things there is just a certain point where I can’t hold back anymore. There I should be done at least for a short while.
😀 Zuberman! 😀 [still managing to keep my smileys up :)]April 6, 2011 3:43 am at 3:43 am #761916dunnoMember
I never understood how important it (happy, popa?) was until I reached shidduchim.April 6, 2011 4:01 am at 4:01 am #761917
I don’t know.
When Rabbi Yochenon Ben Zakai was on his death-bed his students entered. Upon seeing them, he was crying… They asked him why. He answered he (the person we have thank for setting up the system of the preservation of Judaism) has two paths in front of him- Gan Eden and Gehinom- and he isn’t sure where he’ll be going to.
I heard the question asked, why wasn’t he sure? If he felt he did “aveiros”, why wasn’t he repenting. The answer was, he felt he did the right thing. However, he wasn’t certain. (In fact some of the Chachomim of his generation disagreed with him in how he dealt with the Romans).
Of course you should Daven for clarity, and I hope you get it. If, G-d forbid, a person unfortunately doesn’t have it, they can try to take solace in the fact that they’re not alone.April 6, 2011 4:21 am at 4:21 am #761918observanteenMember
TBT: That’s very inspiring. I also thought it’s so hard to say “yes” with certainty. How can you say that when you barely know the guy/girl? (yeah, even after going out on 7 dates. You never know what a person’s really like.) Your comment really gave me chizuk. Thank you.
OP, they say when you meet “the one” you feel so right away. No promises though since I never tried it..April 6, 2011 5:36 am at 5:36 am #761919
observanteen: You’re welcome. Thank you.
At your stage though, where you’re not dating yet, it may be worthwhile to assume Hashem will give you the clarity you need, when the time comes.April 6, 2011 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #761920
Thanks for the replies, all! Yours, smartgal and TBT especially gave me chizzuk 🙂
Yossi Z-Everything ok? (If you dont mind me asking)
Any additional thoughts are welcome as well 🙂
What I was really wondering was the comments my dad made-that most people dont have clarity, and even if you Daven for it, it may not be good for you. Is that really the case?April 6, 2011 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #761921
<rant> What the blazes is clarity?
Do you mean clarity regarding how you feel about a specific question?
Why don’t you just daven for that?
Do you mean you want to have nevuah and know what will happen if you make specific choices? That will not happen, even if you daven.
</rant>April 6, 2011 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm #761922bptParticipant
Funny you should mention this, as I just read something in R’ Twersky’s haggodoh that may steer you in the right direction.
The “mah nishtanah” is about conflicting ideas. The matzoh and marror are about remembering the tough times, while the dipping and leaning are all about freedom.
So what are we trying to remember? The answer is, yiddishkeit is not always about “having all the answers, right away”. Sometimes, you need to have faith.
And take it from a 20+ year veteran; You are ALWAYS learning something new about your relationship with your spouse. Even after you think you understand them thru and thru. Its part of what keeps the game interesting!April 6, 2011 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #761923
Lightitup: yeah things are ok, just I am currently going through some rough patches and there are times where it gets to me. The only reason I am not being more clear as to what is going on is … No not due to shidduchim 😛 rather due to the fact that I revealed who I was and I don’t want to needlessly worry people.
😀 Zuberman! 😀April 7, 2011 12:12 am at 12:12 am #761924yogiboobooMember
light-you must always daven for clarity! i did and i davened to find the right one and guess what…i knew it right away. on my first date my mom was out of town, we called her to let her know we wanted to get married. of course she freaked but you’ll know when its right. if the conversation can just flow and u make each other smile…THAT IS CLARITY! when you dont have to question anymore “do i want to be ith him?” etc. then you know it’s the right thing! yes its scary but when you have a good feeling about him and he to you thats it! go for it! then again me and my husband spoke on the phone the whole week before we met and wed both be upset when it was time to hang up. again, that is clarity! when you miss him and cant imagine life without him thats how you know!April 7, 2011 12:15 am at 12:15 am #761925Know.it.allMember
Perfect clarity would profit the intellect but damage the will
The question is if clarity actually brings certainty or just gives another thought of “no, ill pass on”?April 7, 2011 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #761926
k.i.a.: How would clarity damage will? How are you deffining clarity?April 8, 2011 12:55 am at 12:55 am #761927
Thanks for the answers all! The way I’d define it, (PBA-wont use the ‘c’ word) I guess, is seeing clearly-at the moment- that someone is meant for you to marry vs. what my father says, that most people only get engaged, not cus they know that, but because the person seems good, and they are still taking a chance.April 8, 2011 1:12 am at 1:12 am #761928
I agree with your father. How can anyone who thinks very deeply into it, be certain?
Rabbi Riesman on one of tapes, he tells his students that they’re only going for another date.. they’re getting engaged .. each step on its on. If one focuses on the huge eternal picture, it will surly overwhelm. His idea is to responsibly focus on each step, on its own.April 8, 2011 1:19 am at 1:19 am #761929aries2756Participant
lightitup, you are missing the whole point. When you find the right one you don’t “see” you “feel”. You feel right! You find yourself thinking and picturing the young man in your head. You find yourself looking forward to the next phone call or meeting. You find yourself smiling when you think of him. You find yourself talking about him even though you hadn’t intended on it. Such as you pass a watch store and look in the window and comment “Moshe likes this type of watch” or “Moshe puts two sugars in his coffee”, etc. That means Moshe is on the brain. He is integrated in your brain and in your life. That is clarity. That is your sign. It is the feelings you have, what your heart and brain tell you. Someone that is “NOT” important to you is not on your mind and does not slip off your tongue.
Do you get it? Do you understand? It is a natural process. It just happens that way, not because you want it to, it just does and you just know. But what you said about NOT knowing someone till you live with them is absolutely true.April 8, 2011 1:28 am at 1:28 am #761930shnukieMember
Please do not post that link again.April 8, 2011 2:00 am at 2:00 am #761931ZeesKiteParticipant
Anyone here within PBA’s ‘blazing’ shooting range?April 8, 2011 2:03 am at 2:03 am #761932April 8, 2011 2:04 am at 2:04 am #761933
Aries-Thats actually what I mean by clarity, just couldn’t verbalize it into words. Thanks for saying it for me 🙂
I think me and my father had different definitions of the ‘c’ word.
In terms of predicting the future with the guy, I am aware no one can do that…Its about being present in the moment.
Shnukie-That’s an interesting post…April 8, 2011 2:46 am at 2:46 am #761934
ZeesKite:April 8, 2011 3:40 am at 3:40 am #761935
I am not very young, but definitely not older. Mid 20’s should suffice.
Another thing that I was thinking that signals clarity is feeling the you both bring out the best in each other and feel completely comfortable with and respect and communicate well with each other. I am just wondering also since I have a friend who told me she got engaged to the first guy who seemed normal, he wanted her and there wasnt anything inherently wrong. But now shes having trouble in her marriage, especially with communication 🙁April 8, 2011 3:53 am at 3:53 am #761936
Anyone here within PBA’s ‘blazing’ shooting range?
You’ll never know.April 8, 2011 3:54 am at 3:54 am #761937ZeesKiteParticipant
truth be told:
?? ?????, I’ve NOTHING at all against him (or anyone). I just found his statement funny – “I want to shoot everyone who uses the word “clarity”. It annoys the blazes out of me.” I don’t ‘whack’ ANYONE. Anymore. Mommy trained me well. Terribly sorry if I offended you, Rav Popa. Be Mochel.
Now to your question, what’s gotten into me, that’s a tough question. For now let’s assume DIRE lack of sleep. (how much is 8:15am minus 6:03am)April 8, 2011 3:58 am at 3:58 am #761938
zeeskite: No offense taken.
TBT: Thanks!April 11, 2011 2:16 am at 2:16 am #761939
The shidduch forum in this weeks Yated discusses a similar question. It seems they have a very different definition on clarity. You may want to read itApril 11, 2011 2:20 am at 2:20 am #761940am yisrael chaiParticipant
can you give a synopsis?April 11, 2011 4:54 am at 4:54 am #761941
Im going to take a look. Thanks TBT!April 11, 2011 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #761942Raphael KaufmanMember
The Torah tells us in Parshas Netzavim, “Hanistaros L’ASHEM ELOKEINU”. There is no such thing as certainty in this world. Werner Heisenberg agrees.April 28, 2011 4:37 am at 4:37 am #761943
(I’m sure there are other great books out there, this is just the one I came across, written by a man with fifty years of experience in successfully advising singles– (into couples)April 28, 2011 5:52 am at 5:52 am #761944kapustaParticipant
Clarity to me means two things. One, whatever needs to come out, should. Two, the clarity to really see whats going on and not just get caught up in the excitement of a possible engagement/marriage and meanwhile pushing real issues aside.
In regard to the OP, some people say they knew right away, but not everyone. I don’t think there is one right answer.April 28, 2011 6:44 am at 6:44 am #761945m in IsraelMember
I’m not sure what you mean by clarity, but MANY people do not “know” right away, or even after a few dates, and as aries described it’s a gradual process. Even after getting engaged, a large number of people, if not most, have moments of uncertainty, which is totally normal, and assuming they are not specific concerns and issues, are usually par for the course!
A suggestion: perhaps instead of davening for “clarity”, which is not necessarily a real experience, daven for the siyatta dishmayah to make the right decision, which is really what you are looking for.
Hatzlachah!April 28, 2011 9:06 am at 9:06 am #761946
whatever needs to come out, should.
some people say they knew right away
Chapter two in that book quotes a lot of very interesting old Reader Digest articles. They’re fascinatingApril 28, 2011 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #761947
MIA the second: Please read that book, it’s worthwhile and you’ll probably enjoy it. He gradually and thoroughly addresses the “feel” part. It’s way different than described here.
I like your suggestion.
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