Coffee addict post in the news article about Monsey crash

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  • #618346
    Health
    Participant

    Coffee – You’re 100% right! Anybody else agree with me?

    #1178011
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    I do not agree.

    It is not like they boys were out on the road running around.

    They were in the driveway and the driver of the Lexus tried to pass illegally.

    Following Coffee’s illogic, you would say the same in any accident, that the person would not have ben injure/ killed had they not been at that location.

    The location where they boys were was no a location that was in and of itself hazardous for what they were doing.

    They were not adding to traffic at a high traffic time.

    There is no question that the Journal News is highly biased in its reportage and seeks to inflame hatred.

    This is not something new.

    edited

    #1178012
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It reminds me if when someone asked Rav Bick zt”l if he needs to say Birchas Hagomel since he missed his flight which ended up crashing.

    Rav Bick responded with a shailah of his own: his trousers were hanging on the line and fell off, should he say Birchas Hagomel since he wasn’t in them?

    #1178013
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    I don’t know. Where there signs up saying that the area was a school and people should slow down? It is tragic, but we shouldn’t just throw our hands up, we should do our histadlus so that it doesn’t happen again CV.

    Put another way, if there would have been a sign that children are walking in the area, perhaps the person driving would have been more careful. I don’t know if there was such a sign, but please have the Monsey area put one up ASAP if it isn’t there.

    #1178014
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Thank you health, that news article’s comments were very hurtful and to see your and boyswork’s comments with a thinking mind means a lot

    In no way am I saying the boys deserved it and I’m not saying that the yeshiva willingly knew this would happen

    What I am saying is that life doesn’t work in a vacuum and if something happens it’s because Hashem wants to show us something and we should learn from it

    I don’t think introspection and learning from things makes me a goy and if it does I guess because I’m a goy kadosh

    And gaw I don’t know the situation over there but that was my assumption, since it’s not properly zoned for a school there wouldn’t have been those signs

    Additionally a google maps view of it looks like it’s near a highway, very dangerous for a Yeshiva to be

    #1178015
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    How does money crash?

    #1178016
    Health
    Participant

    NDG -“It is not like they boys were out on the road running around.

    They were in the driveway and the driver of the Lexus tried to pass illegally.

    Following Coffee’s illogic, you would say the same in any accident, that the person would not have ben injure/ killed had they not been at that location.

    The location where they boys were was no a location that was in and of itself hazardous for what they were doing.

    They were not adding to traffic at a high traffic time.”

    Why are you being Mozay Shem Ra on CA?

    I’ll quote his post:

    “It is the way of a person being pursued to always feel that way

    I see nothing illogical in CA’s post! I also don’t see anything denying that it’s not the driver’s fault.

    What I did see over there (in the comments) is a lot of Sinas Chinum, right before the Yomim Noroyim!

    And FYI, as far as I know, I never met or known CA in real life!

    #1178017
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The comments were nasty, but you are still wrong.

    The accident (as reported) had nothing to do with any past zoning issues, and if you think a tragedy calls for introspection (it does) then do some introspection, but that’s not what you did.

    Gavra, these weren’t little kids, and they were standing on the sidewalk.

    On a side note, I think they need better moderation the main site. Too many nasty comments get through (and in this case a racist one as well).

    #1178018
    Joseph
    Participant

    ca: Since you clarified you aren’t African-American in your comment on the main site, I think you’ll be okay.

    #1178019
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    On another side note, I guess you managed to clear up the mbachur glitch. 🙂

    #1178020
    Health
    Participant

    LF -“How does money crash?”

    I was waiting for s/o to comment on that!

    If you thought I made a spelling mistake – why comment on it right before the Yomim Noroyim?!?

    In actuality, my computer changed it from Monsey to Money, and I didn’t notice it until it was already posted!

    #1178021
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Dy, thank you also, I don’t argue that my comment might be wrong it’s the way I was attacked, people can disagree respectfully

    And you’re right I shouldn’t have made that backhanded comment I just felt people on the main site say Jews could never do anything wrong

    #1178022
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Dy,

    Yeah I noticed it a while ago 😉

    Additionally why don’t you think I did any introspection, I did and I voiced it for others to hear (or see in this case)

    #1178023
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The way you were attacked was despicable.

    Maybe I missed something, but telling a yeshiva where to open is not introspection, unless you’re an administrator for a yeshiva. You may have done a lot of introspection, and decided you need to work on your (fill in the blank), but that’s not what was expressed.

    Also, if I’m reading correctly, there’s currently a temporary C of O, so I don’t see an issue.

    Either way, I don’t call blaming a tragedy on someone else’s negligence introspection.

    #1178024
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Health, I apologize. Please be Mochel. I didn’t think I’d hurt anyone with that. And I shouldn’t hurt anyone anytime, not just before Yomim Noraim.

    #1178025
    Health
    Participant

    DY -“”The comments were nasty, but you are still wrong.”

    Please explain why he’s wrong?!?

    “The accident (as reported) had nothing to do with any past zoning issues, and if you think a tragedy calls for introspection (it does) then do some introspection, but that’s not what you did.”

    I’m not a mind reader, but I think that’s exactly what he did!

    It definitely has to do with past zoning laws.

    I like this topic that I made – it’s the one of the first times I’m defending s/o else!

    “Gavra, these weren’t little kids, and they were standing on the sidewalk”

    I’m actually surprised at you for posting lies! You usually are one of the honest ones!

    I went on Google maps to see the actual real picture of the road.

    It’s a country road with twists and turns. People usually speed on these types of roads. There are No sidewalks! Just driveways going straight to the street!

    #1178026
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Please explain why he’s wrong?!?

    I did, as did NDG, and I feel no need to get into an endless cycle of repetitive argument with you.

    As far as my honesty, quoting from the article: “Two Yeshiva students standing on the sidewalk after a long day at Yeshiva, when suddenly they were run over by an out of control vehicle.

    That’s where I got my information from, I didn’t check Google Maps of go down there.

    #1178027
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I also would like to know if I posted any comments like the ones being directed at me and if I did I’m sorry (being on the receiving end of these comments isn’t too good

    #1178028
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Dy,

    My introspection is to make sure a place has a c of o before frequenting it

    #1178029
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    That’s your introspection? Not to be more careful about loshon hora, shmirah einayim, etc. (I know these and other ruchniyusdik issues concern you, so I’m surprised.)?

    It’s also misdirected introspection, as that wouldn’t have prevented this, as, to quote the article, “The dormitory-school at 996 Route 202, also known as Haverstraw Road, had been operating with a temporary certificate of occupancy…”.

    More importantly, I don’t think you’re capable of that type of vitriol, but that would actually be a better example of introspection – you were insulted, and you therefore are thinking about your own bein adam l’chaveiro. Kudos for that.

    #1178030
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Dina d’malchusa dina is also bein Adam lchaveiro

    #1178031
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Also it is strange how they have the temporary c of o if there were violations additionally as I have said before Google map the yeshiva it’s next to a highway with no sidewalk on the side! How would the city let a school be there?

    #1178032
    Health
    Participant

    DY -“I did, as did NDG, and I feel no need to get into an endless cycle of repetitive argument with you.”

    I’m not going to back down because you don’t want to argue!

    It’s your choice not to answer back!

    “As far as my honesty, quoting from the article: “Two Yeshiva students standing on the sidewalk after a long day at Yeshiva, when suddenly they were run over by an out of control vehicle.”

    All this does is – it makes both of you in the wrong!

    There is definitely a problem in the Frum community with walking or being near country roads! This is not a new problem – people do this all the time in the Catskills!!!

    #1178033
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    So dy since the article (which is really an op ed) said it’s a sidewalk that’s what makes it there?

    #1178034
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Two quotes from the most recent article:

    1) “the young men were struck in the dormitory driveway”

    So yes, no sidewalk, but they wer not on the road.

    2) “The property was granted a permanent certificate of occupancy as a school and dormitory in February 2016, and all of its inspections are current, Ramapo’s Chief Building Inspector Anthony Mallia said in an email.”

    So C of O not relevant by any stretch.

    #1178035
    Health
    Participant

    DY -“So yes, no sidewalk, but they wer not on the road.”

    You simply ignored my point – “There is definitely a problem in the Frum community with walking or being near country roads! This is not a new problem – people do this all the time in the Catskills!!!”

    Do you have a response?!?

    #1178037
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Coffee,

    I hate to do this as I usually try not to share personal information (Its really none of your b – i beeswax), but I have been on route 202 many a time. If you go to the Wesley Hills area of Monsey when traveling South on the Palisades, it is often shortest to go on Route 202. Route 202 is NOT a highway, it is not different from Route 306 in Monsey. A two way street with a line down the center. Much narrower than any of the avenues in Brooklyn or Queens.

    There are schools, houses, senior centers and stores all along Route 202. Some parts are more wooded, but that is the suburban nature of the area.

    What does sometimes happen is that when there is not much traffic, drivers will speed.

    A school sign on the road would not slow anyone down, certainly not a t midnight. In fact a car in front, waiting to make a turn didn’t slow the driver down.

    And as it turns out, there was a C of O in place, so there was absolutely no reason for a violation from 3 years ago to be included in the story as if that were the main issue here. It was soooo important for the writer to include information that was meant to rile up hateful comments on the LOHUD website, (the edit above was to change my pet name for that rag) that he spent to the time to put all the unnecessary information in the first posting of the article (and also to talk about the Rosh Yeshiva’s home) instead of doing just a bit of research to find out the tactual current situation.

    #1178038
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    Health,

    What is wrong with being near a country road???!!!

    And, in areas that are mostly country roads, it is not only frum people who walk along them.

    Not in the Catskills, not in Ramapo, not in Lakewood.

    #1178039
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    You simply ignored my point –

    Yes, because it’s a completely irrelevant and irrational point.

    Do you honestly think this is a “frum” issue? Do you think non Jews and secular Jews are careful to never live or appear on streets without sidewalks?

    There, I responded. Is it going to help? Will you acknowledge that you made a mistake?

    I expect not, so now you’ll know why I often don’t respond to other irrelevant or illogical points.

    #1178040
    Mammele
    Participant

    Health: curving country roads actually make drivers slow down. At least when I’m a back seat driver…

    It’s the wide highway type roads that are the usual speeding magnets. However, reckless drivers drive recklessly everywhere, so maybe we can never cross the street with walkways and traffic signals in the city either.

    And in the city busy streets near schools (public and private) may be without traffic signals, and if nobody writes a letter to the DOT requesting a traffic signal it stays that way. Even with a letter it’s pending approval after a drawn out review. Zoning doesn’t effect squat.

    There may be roads unsafe for walking, so we need to work on making them safer via sidewalks etc. but this was NOT the case here. Bringing in extraneous information, some of it erroneous, detracts from the fact that the driver was careless here and simply fosters hate.

    I’d compare it to saying someone got hit on her way to Shul Shabbos so she’s partly to blame for her own death because women are not required to daven with a minyan and guarding one’s nefesh is more important. Do we expect us all to become hermits because leaving the house may be dangerous?

    #1178041
    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    DY is right. Close the thread. CA’s comment should have been mod’d out in the first place. We all know that there are some people in this world that cope with any given tragedy by grasping for straws to try and blame the victims. That’s something that SHOULD be a “frum” issue unlike country roads.

    And, while we’re at it, is it really possible that people live in such a backwards bubble that they think walking down an urban road in say Brooklyn NY is safer simply on account of the presence of sidewalks than a road in a country town in which violent crimes happen maybe once every 10 years?

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