Collecting On Purim in a Limousine

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  • #589503

    flatbush27
    Member

    Do you think its ok for bochurim to go around collecting in limos? People say its the only way the organizations get these guys to go collecting but why should my tzedaka money go to a limo when they could easily rent a normal car for much less money and then more tzedaka money goes to the tzedaka and not the limo company.

    #1010473

    myshadow
    Member

    flatbush, I have been saying that for years!! When a boy goes around in a limo, the first 500 dollars at least goes towards the limo instead of the yeshiva or organization.

    My brothers tell me that the balabatim will give more money if they show up in a limo as opposed to a van or something. If this is true then the system is very skewed.

    The boys also love the shtick of driving around in a limo and do rent them for the fun of it. Purim is a time for tzedaka. If they davka enjoy riding in a limo they should rent one with either their own money or sponsered money that people know is going directly for the car

    #1010474

    InShidduchim
    Member

    fyi, my brother who went around collecting money in a limo said that it costs teh same much to rent a van or as bus as it does to rent a LIMO!!

    #1010475

    mchemtob
    Member

    for the few boys that i know that have done this the limo was donated, either by the limo company or a sponsor.

    #1010476

    goody613
    Member

    i know people that got someone to pay for the limo but in the end didn’d do itb/c people give less when theysee a limo

    #1010477

    azi
    Participant

    I’m all for the limos. It’s no different than a regular collector from an Israeli yeshiva who’s plain ticket, hotel and food is payed for out if what he collects. Yehsiva bochurim are not bums who can be pushed around and manipulated by others. If you want them to collect for you then pay the price.

    #1010478

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    ahhhhhhhhhh the good old days!!!! maybe us cr members should rent a limo this year, & collect for the Yeshiva(ywn)???!!!!!!!

    Rosh Yeshiva: u agree????

    #1010479

    beacon
    Participant

    As long as there is a designated (non-drunk) driver I say thank gd.

    #1010480

    Why collect in such an extravagant manner. If the Bochur is Collecting for his Yeshiva why create a false impression by driving around in such an expensive vehicle. Especially in a time when many families are struggling because of the Recession. Who are you trying to impress? A Van or a more modest vehicle can also drive you to your turf. What is wrong with either walking or taking the Subway? Or have we become so spoiled that Collecting in a Limo is the only way to be successful.

    #1010481

    posek hador
    Member

    when i went collecting i had a kollel guy squash us into his minivan.

    and i know a gvir who davka does not give a lot to those collecting in limos since he feels no need to pay for a yeshivahs limmo

    #1010483

    flatbush27
    Member

    azi: bochurim have plenty of fun collecting. nobody is forcing them or manipulating them. obviously they would rather a limo but a van does exactly what a limo does. point A to point B. people are giving less tzedaka these days becuse theyre making less money so at least the tzedaka should go for mostly tzedaka, not a limo.

    #1010484

    qwertyuiop
    Member

    asdfghjkl: that’s a great idea.$

    #1010485

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    qwertyuiop: i know, i’m brilliant!!! u in???

    #1010486

    qwertyuiop
    Member

    i’ll see.$

    #1010487

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    qwertyuiop: see what??? the weather that day?????

    #1010488

    azi
    Participant

    posek hador

    I think that “gvir” has a very self-righteous attitude.

    flatbush27

    They don’t have to collect all togehter. If the yeshivos want to take advantage of their bochurim they cant be to demanding. Its their purim, they can do it however they want. Dont like it, dont ask them to collect.

    #1010489

    myshadow
    Member

    azi, the yeshivos are considered “demanding” if they don’t let limos?

    #1010490

    squeak
    Participant

    asdf – how about if instead of that you rent a limo for the CR gang and then we all go collect from your family – this way, it can be a stop Purim. And let’s make it for a more worthy cause.

    #1010491

    oomis
    Participant

    I don’t like the collecting altogether. I think some of the boys are doing it more for the limo ride, and even MORE because very often they get a drink at the homes of the gvirim to whom they go (I have been told about the drinkling by boys who went collecting, I am not surmising this). No one comes collecting at MY house. They go to the fancy homes in the wealthier nearby neighborhoods. So clearly it is not just a matter of tzedaka.

    #1010493

    squeak
    Participant

    oomis, I suspect it’s not because of that. People come to my home, and I am not wealthy (and there’s no reason to think otherwise, not by where I live or what I live in). They collect at homes where they will be met with a warm reception, and avoid homes where the attitude towards them and their yeshiva will be hostile.

    #1010496

    Joseph
    Participant

    squeak put it best.

    #1010497

    anon for this
    Participant

    oomis1105,

    Maybe the collectors don’t visit you because they prefer to concentrate on the wealthier people, in order to maximize the amount of tzedaka they can receive in a limited amount of time. I thought they were given lists of addresses, so I’d like to think that they are not choosing where to visit based on where they think they’ll get drinks.

    #1010498

    torahtziva
    Member

    if tzedakah is taken away for a limo, it’s assur.

    #1010500

    oomis
    Participant

    They collect at homes where they will be met with a warm reception, and avoid homes where the attitude towards them and their yeshiva will be hostile.

    Squeak, how would they know someone would be hostile to them if they don’t ever go there?

    And I know for a fact that the boys who came collecting from a local Yeshivah discussed with some friends how they were getting the “good Stuff” to drink at this one or that one’s house that they went to. They didn’t care – they were in a limo. The boys were 17.

    #1010501

    flatbush27
    Member

    oomis: do you have anything nice to say about yeshiva bochurim? whether it comes to drinking or collecting you think they are just taking advantage of purim. bochurim collect hundreds of thousands of dollars every yr for tzedaka if not millions. that doesnt mean they need a limo because thats wasting tzedaka money but if they havesome ‘good stuff’ on purim and their only 17, so what. their doing a huge mitzva by collecting amd singing at ppl’s homes and sometimes a little alcohol in their system helps the dancing and overall happiness. that doesnt mean i think its ok for them to get plastered and throw up everywhere but MOST bochurim do not do this. they get a little high and they dont throw up everywhere. you said you live next to a yeshiva. so out of lets say 400 bochurim 20 or 30 are hanging outside throwing up on your lawn and those bochurim are the only ones you see. you dont see the other 350 or so dancing leibidig inside.

    #1010503

    Flatbush27-You make light of Bochurim vomiting on someones property. How would you feel if that happened in your backyard? How would you like to clean it up? Myself I would not appreciate it if I saw Bochurim from a Yeshiva Katana Vomiting the contents from their Stomach on my lawn and I had to spray water on the lawn to clean the mess. I would want to phone Hatzalah to examine the Bochur (IM) in case he (they) needed to be transported to the Emergency Room at the near by Hospital. The question is why are the Bal Batim serving Moshka to Bochurim at all. If the Driver of the Limo or Van is also drinking Moshka I would be very concerned about his sobriety and his ability as a driver to negotiate traffic. Perhaps a Sober Designated Driver would be the only one permitted to drive(BH).

    #1010504

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    squeak: sounds perfect to me!!! i’ll start making it happen!!!

    #1010505

    IMPORTANT: Since money is tight, many givirim that used to give very generous donations may not be capable of giving that same amount since year. No matter how they travel limo or station wagon, they must remember not to nudge for more money, because many of the “rich” guys simply dont have what they used to.

    #1010506

    chillmaster
    Member

    as a guy that used to rent limos for purim there r a few things you have to take into consideration. when you give money to a collecter at your door or a fund raiser in shul or a telemarketer calling for an organisation they get at least 30 percent. when a guy comes from israel and uses a car service to get around the driver gets 30 percent so if you give him 100 33 goes to the driver he gets about 33 so only 33 is going to the organisation. the differentce in price from a basic carservice to a limo isnt that much, so no matter if they get a car service or limo if u give money to the guys more of it is actually going to the organisation.

    when a guy knocks on ur door and says hes coming from israel he paid for a ticket hotel food car phone clothes and a list of people to go to and who do u think is paying for those expenses we are so let the guys have fun and enjoy themselfs one day a year!

    #1010507

    kapusta
    Participant

    squeak, he cant he would have to ship us all out to Ireland. (unless he takes us on his private jet)

    #1010508

    squeak
    Participant

    oomis, if I could, I would invite you to my Seudah so that you could see what it is like to have bochurim walking in and out collecting for various worthy causes. If you could fargin (look past) the personal enjoyment that the bochurim get from it and see the joy they bring into your home with them plus the mitzvah that they are doing, I’m sure you wouldn’t feel the way you do. As far as giving goes, I will probably not give more than $10 – $20 to most, but I know they will come anyway.

    asdf – I would look forward to it!

    #1010509

    lovenlife
    Member

    Ames: lol and they’ll prob not allowed to leave syria. They’ll take their fluce!! (That means MONEY)

    #1010510

    Mayan_Dvash
    Participant

    When I was in Torah Vodaas, the Yeshiva got smart. People were complaining that multiple groups were coming to them collecting for Torah Vodaas’ tzedaka (Keren Yitzchok Tzvi if I recall correctly). In the early years they gave out a list and each group was supposed to keep to their list. But not everyone listened. So they mandated all groups wear the same costume. How was this instituted? Instead of going around the yeshiva with a list of available costumes for rent, the yeshiva bought a bunch of clown costumes. It’s a one size fits all, and the donors will recognize whether they gave already. Another thing is that all drivers were at least 21 years old.

    #1010511

    torahtziva
    Member

    such a waste of money.

    #1010512

    squeak
    Participant

    I once drove a group of bochurim, and I enjoyed it very much. Being (well) over 21, I had no urge to drink before I got home. No limo, but I let them “decorate” my car.

    As I said, the bochurim don’t make the trip because of the money they get from me, their travel expenses are more than covered by the people on the other side of town 😉 But I appreciate their visit, and I think that makes them enjoy coming.

    #1010513

    yitzy99
    Member

    The only time I used to see a limousine in Boro Park when I was growing up was at a funeral.

    What happenned?

    #1010514

    flatbush27
    Member

    yankdownunder-i am not making light of the bochurim throwing up on oomis lawn. i think its disgusting and i would not like it. i’m just saying he is looking at the minority doing the wrong thing rather than looking at the majority doing the right thing

    Unless there is a scientific poll, please be careful with the use of terms ‘minority’ and ‘majority’ I KNOW there will end up being a debate on which is which, and I’d like to stop it before it starts

    YW Moderator-39

    #1010515

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    squeak: k greak!!!

    kapushta: i have not gotten my private jet yet!!! ha ha abt ireland!!!

    yitzy99: welcome back to the cr!!!!

    #1010516

    yitzy99
    Member

    asdfghjkl: Thank you for your greeting!

    Have a wonderful Purim, and all members as well.

    #1010517

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    yitzy99: your welcome & thanx you2!!!

    #1010518

    Joseph
    Participant

    squeak, you must’ve been very free that Purim…

    #1010520

    squeak
    Participant

    Elaborate on that statement, please

    #1010521

    Joseph
    Participant

    you really want me too?

    #1010522

    Joseph
    Participant

    squeak, BTW its time that I ought to be moida I really have no idea who you are despite having pulled the “Y” initial gag on you that got you scared, about a month ago. I knew it was true from a LONG LONG ago comment you made, that was off-topic, a very brief side-point, smack in middle of a very large thread. I knew you wouldn’t remeber having made that post; in fact I came across it entirely coincedentally when searching for something completely else. I immediately knew I hit a gold-mine, that would get you running.

    See: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/still-fuming-at-rabbi-belsky-and-mishpacha/page/5#post-4951

    #1010523

    Joseph
    Participant

    regarding the free comment, generally marrieds don’t have time to drive bochorim around collecting on Purim…

    #1010524

    as a parent i can tell you that im usually too busy driving my own kids around on purim

    #1010527

    squeak
    Participant

    BTW Joseph, I figured out where you got the Y from a short while later.

    Regarding your “free” comment, it’s a good point but as you said, it’s only “generally” so no rayeh. Besides, you have no idea how long ago it was either.

    If you are so interested in my marital status, you could have found it out a while ago in the thread about chanuka presents. No one picked up on it then, but I don’t mind if someone does.

    #1010528

    smarterthanallofyou
    Participant

    I didnt bother reading all the posts (I have more important things to do). If you would just stop and think about it it is absolutly amazing that a bunch of high school kids give up their purim time to collect for tzedakah. Of course it is the absolute furthest thing from lishmah but these are kids we are dealing with! When I was in highschool my group collected over 3000 dollars each year (after the limo) that frankly we otherwise would not have. Hope that explains it to all of you.

    #1010529

    kapusta
    Participant

    smarterthanallofyou, (hey, me too!) thats a very nice way to look at it, but unfortunately its not the accepted way. great attitude, wish more people had it

    #1010530

    oomis
    Participant

    oomis: do you have anything nice to say about yeshiva bochurim? whether it comes to drinking or collecting you think they are just taking advantage of purim. bochurim collect hundreds of thousands of dollars every yr for tzedaka if not millions. that doesnt mean they need a limo because thats wasting tzedaka money but if they havesome ‘good stuff’ on purim and their only 17, so what. their doing a huge mitzva by collecting amd singing at ppl’s homes and sometimes a little alcohol in their system helps the dancing and overall happiness. that doesnt mean i think its ok for them to get plastered and throw up everywhere but MOST bochurim do not do this. they get a little high and they dont throw up everywhere. you said you live next to a yeshiva. so out of lets say 400 bochurim 20 or 30 are hanging outside throwing up on your lawn and those bochurim are the only ones you see. you dont see the other 350 or so dancing leibidig inside.

    I know it feels like all I have to say is negative, but generally, on Purim night, on Simchas Torah night, and on Tikun Leil Shavuos the boys from the yeshivah next door to me are wild, out of control, and loud beyond belief even at 4 AM. I remember having given birth a week before Purim and sending my poor husband out several times to tell the boys to go indoors to their Yeshivah instead of making noise so loud that neither the baby nor I could get any sleep. (and yes, we told them about the baby). Do you think that if even ONE, much less 20-30 bochrum are outside unsupervised by their Rosh Yeshivah or any chaperones, throwing up on my law and disturbing the peace (and there are non-Jews on my block, as well – what a chillul Hashem!), that I care one whit about 300 boys INSIDE who may or may not be getting plastered?

    You are way too chauvinistic IMO, to the point that you cannot admit that there is a fundamental wrongness with a system that encourages this type of behavior and calls it a mitzvah. The boys who collect ARE doing a mitzvah, but if their sole reason for collecting is the idea of riding around in a limo and getting served liqour in fancy homes, it kind of shters the intent and makes it a little suspect. Still they credit for the mitzvah of tzedaka, even if it is slightly shterred.

    And I would not have to be upset with these bochurim, were their rebbeim with them watching them. But the adults all go home to bed after 11 PM, and these kids are totally unsupervised at their Purim party in the Yeshivah (I know, because I sent my husband in to look for a Rebbie to get the boys under control). I called the Rosh Yeshivah in the middle of the night one Purim, after fireworks were shot off on my lawn, coming dangerously close to my house. Sorry to say, I did wake him up. Well at least one of us was sleeping. And forget about the SMOKING and tossing of cigarette butts all over my yard. Had the lawn been really dry, we could have had a fire. There has to be a better and more meaningful way.I have put up with this for 22 years, and I would like to see a little self-control and a lot of supervision.

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