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cantoresq,
Oxford shirts are generally not accepted, they are too thick for a ben Torah.
WHO exactly is too thick? 🙂
Too thick is less than 140 count thread. It’s a mitzva min hamuvchar for b’nai torah to be attired in Brooks.
Cherry,
Why are the threads in an oxford shirt too thick, and those Turkish wool Talisos that look like recycled blankets good enough? Do Brooks Bros make prayer shawls? Well, they should…..
What about Egyptian cotton, one of the finer fabrics? Does it not violate “kimaaseh eretz Mitzraim. . .?”
Get with it man; Turkish is out, light weight is in.
Do you get double schar for white on white?
Should one avoid the “Polo” logo as detrimental to ones growth in yiras shamayim because it is reminiscent of a bahaima tamaia and stick with the Nautica sail?
JP
Nisht kein pferd fun Polo, und nisht kein alligator fun Izod!! Ehrliche Yidden only go in white shirts, either manufactured by heimish owned companies with bogus Italian names, or those that button in ladie’s fashion (not that we are aftaid of Lo Silbash).
Any and all logos are pure Avoda Zara, for some reason or another. I am sure there is some obscure midrash that can be misquoted to prove exactly that.
Wearing a colored shirt is perfectly muttar, as long as doing so is not a form of rebellion in your circles. Anything done for rebellion is assur. If it’s acceptable, then go ahead and wear your colored/ striped shirt.
Jothar, since wearing white exclusively also has sociological implication, might a member of the “colored wearing shirts community” who opts wear white shirts exclusively also be guilty of “rebellion?”
Jphone, many chareidi yeshivas have that policy from 8th grade up.
Which ones? So far, only two have been named. One in Brooklyn, and one in Lakewood. If “many yeshivos” have this white shirt only policy, who are they? Please name them.
I know Yeshivah Darchei Torah in Far Rockaway REQUIRES white shirts for the boys in their high school
I don’t know….
When I was in high school, Philly boys, Long Beach boys, Ner Israel boys, Telz boys, all wore colored or striped shirts, and learned day and night, with passion and Ahavas Hatorah. Today we have all white clad bochurim, yet, the level of hasmada AND the quality of learning itself went down significantly. Sure, there is yeridas hadoros, but, when one starts focusing on the trappings, rather than on the core, those become more important. This attitude later pervades the shiduchim scene, as well. It is a sad state of affairs when one’s level of learning and piety can be “easily” determined by the color of his clothing, the width and tilt of his hat’s brim, and by how long and white his Rosh Yeshiva’s beard is.
Required, as in, show up in a blue shirt enough times, your out for blatantly violating policy? That will be the day!
Sammy gol. No offense to everyone but he keeps making more sense.
truthsharer, i noticed that you mentioned before the following statement
“torah vodaas of all places requires white shirts”
what makes you say “OF ALL PLACES”?????
yeah, torah vedaas is a regular yeshivah. most brooklyn hs require white shirts.
Is a white shirt with colored stripes considered a white shirt or a colored one?
Jewess, when the “milk scandal” broke out some 11 years ago, the sh’muah was that, according to a prominent posek in Boro Park, the green and blue milk was definitely kosher, and even the red wasn’t really red.
Kal Vachomer with stripes on shirts
“Is a white shirt with colored stripes considered a white shirt or a colored one?”
According to my best guess it should be considered white if the white stripes are at least a “gris” wide. Then if the shirt was made of wool or linen it could contract the Tumah of Tza-raas according to my best understanding.
On the other hand those most Makpid (insisting on) white shirts are Chasidim, so they should decide. I am not a Chasid as my thinking process is like Adam HaRishon -“a yeka”.
sammygol- so, is this a direct correlation scientifically? seems to be proof enough to consider it! you seem to be one of the only people with a brain on this post! Maybe if we stopped concentrating on what they wear while learning and instead concentrated on their learning, we might make some progress in the community and frum world at large.
Had a brainstorm- if boys stopped concentrating on what they wore (brand names, colors, styles, fabrics, animal/boat/whatever symbols) maybe it would help stop girls from being obsessed over weight and fashion (to impress future shidduch chances) as the boys wouldnt care either! One thing seems to lead to another. Yes, girls will be concerned naturally, but if boys stopped thinking about it all day, then at least one pressure would be off the girls. Maybe they would be more “middle of the road” and not so obsessed. Just my thoughts.
Josh
B’makom shenimtze…. Where it is acceptble, you can have the stripes as wide as a “turmus”. Also, according to most poskim, if it is not made of natural fibers, EVEN white shirts are acceptible.
In the days of the Taanaim, did they have a policy about what color robes one could wear into the bais medrash? Did they only wear white robes? Black robes? Perhaps robes that were white on top and black on the bottom?
I have yet to see a Rishon dismiss the opinion of another based on the color of his clothing. “Come on, you cant take his shitta in hilchos bishul seriously, he wrote that while wearing a purple caftan” is only something you’d see in a sefer published by an insane alylum.
This entire discussion is asinine.
Whats next? Shirts done by the chineese laundy are no good because the non jew lacks the proper yiras shamayim while ironig the shirts and it will have a negative effect on the wearer?
Perhaps I should open a business that deals only in white shirts and get a hechsher guaranteeing that only yidden who washed negel vaaser touched the materials and machinary in all aspects of the manufacturing, packaging and shipping of the shirts. Then as an added bonus, start a new shirt cleaning service that assures that the starch has the highest hechsher and hire only those with the highest level of yiras shamayim, and who listen to torah tapes while laundering the shirts work in this store. This will assure that the perfectly starched Perry Ellis, Tommy Hilfiger, Nautica, Ralph Lauren, Brooks Brothers, Hart Schafner Marx, Marx Brothers and Saks Fifth Avenue shirts that adorn our bachurim are steeped in yiras shamayim and will not be a hinderence in any way shape or form to their further growth in torah, avodah and yiras shamayim as they grow to become the future leaders of Klal Yisroel.
jphone:
Don’t give them more ideas!
However, you most probably would make a killing in that business if you made it a requirement for shidduchim.
“And the boy only gets his WHITE shirts laundered by a jew who is of the highest caliber”!!
One flaw is that it is “bittle torah” and no upstanding yidden would ever do such a thing. You might get some “modern” guy (and only guys for men clothing and women for female clothing, of course) but he might not be of such a great caliber, so this idea might not work.
Fantastic idea! May you only hav hatzlacha in your endevours jphone. I m positive that bussiness will be booming as soon as u open…what would u call/name your bussiness?
There is a discussion in the gemara about clothing somewhere. Rabbi Yehuda Hanassi (or Levi his talmid- I forget my girsa deyankusa) says that the Persians (who dress in all black) are like angels of destruction, and the Jewish scholars (who dress in all-white) are like the ministering angels. Galachim wear black clothing as well.
I heard that yeshivos are starting to reject donations by contributors wearing colored shirts.
JP
Next are underwear made by frum Jews, solely leshem shomayim. They are loosefitting, strictly white, made of thick Turkish wool, AND, most importantly, have no ch’shash of shatnez, attested to by 11 stamps with bow ties and tiny Hebrew letters, plastered all over the place.
Unfortunately, guaranteeing such high degree of kashrus and integiry costs a lot of money, yet, advertizing this amazing product (“Gatkes” in the most holy Yiddish tongue) does not add to the price, since no ehrliche yidden would get photographed in them.
The name of the brand? Why, “LOOT OF THE FRUM”, of course! 🙂
A name for the business? Perhaps the Coffee Room can offer a few suggestions?
By the way… (not that this has anything to do with anything), today I’m wearing the purple shirt I mentioned earlier. 🙂
The Wolf
I do not understand this obsession with clothing–I never have.
I remember one time during a late night experiment many years ago. Present were myself, the laboratory chief, and a student who came from a very Preppie background. All male.
After a long period without conversation, the graduate student asks “should your socks match your shirt or your pants?”
The lab chief and I (longtime friends) looked at each other in astonishment. The student pressed me for an answer. All I could do was reply “I think I’m doing pretty well if my socks match each other.”
It still holds true. People no longer ask me “who was that guy in shul with the purple shirt” questions. They are likely to get a response of “there was a guy in shul with a purple shirt?”
Socks should match one’s pants.
and the shirt should match the pants. (But I think that’s asking too much of men.)
“and the shirt should match the pants. (But I think that’s asking too much of men.)”
Maybe THIS is the reason for white shirts. You cant mismatch a white shirt with ANY color pants 🙂
who cares what people wear?? some people wear black and white and it doesnt mean there so frum
Skunks and Penguins wear black and white. I have never heard anyone challenge their frumkeit. Perhaps the colors really do have a hashpaa on the wearer.
What would happen if a black and white guy decided to wear white pants and a black shirt?
You would have to stand on your head to speak to him with respect.
“You cant mismatch a white shirt with ANY color pants”
Actually, both my wife and daughters agree that a white button down shirt and khaki pants are a fashion disaster.
Mamashtakkah. I suppose it is for this simple reason, yeshiva bachurim have also adopted not to wear Khaki pants.
There is little room for error if you have closet filled with white shirts and black pants.
I wonder if white shirts and blue pants would pose a problem for the non zionists.
Depending on the shade of blue.
Usually I wear blue striped shirts – not very vivid or clashing. Sometimes they’re blue with white stripes. Other times they’re white with blue stripes. Maybe I have one solid blue shirt, and three solid white shirts. They don’t have large logos though. Maybe the largest is an inch high.
Hope this helps your Yiddishkeit.
Is everyone going to write out their wardrobes now?
I cant speak for others, but it certainly does not interest me.
My Mother thinks that the black davening jackets worn by Yeshivish people don’t match the black pants. You can’t wear a black jacket with black pants unless it is a suit. Many people who I have spoken to disagree with this and apparently most Yeshivish people either also disagree or just don’t care.
This ties in with another CR thread.
If your wearing a jacket by davening “because thats what everyone does”, then you dont really care what color it is. If you are wearing a jacket because you want to show at least as much kavod tothe ribbono shel olam as you would say, a job interview, you would care how you looked and if you matched. You might even wear a tier for davening.
=mcsquared:def helping! i was nervous c,.i hav the exact same wardrobe as you. Now explain how thats possible…??
You both shopped at the last Syms bash?
“Perhaps I should open a business that deals only in white shirts and get a hechsher guaranteeing that only yidden who washed negel vaaser touched the materials and machinary in all aspects of the manufacturing, packaging and shipping of the shirts.”
jphone, this is a great business model, but you need to use only people who go to the mikva before each shirt is made.
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