August 9, 2016 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #1164454
JF2 -“What on earth do you call that, if not a conspiracy?”
Call it what you want, but I don’t think it was a conspiracy!
People just like to be PC, even if it contradicts science!
Conspiracy implies on purpose.
Like Michael Savage says – “Liberalism is a mental disorder”!August 9, 2016 10:42 pm at 10:42 pm #1164455
Health…do you understand the meaning of the word “conspiracy”?August 10, 2016 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #1164456
“well, to take that position today is a completely different
Yet they still do take that position. Perhaps they are crazy. Perhaps not. The APA may have an official position, but a good percentage of its members dont agree with it. If you think they are crazy, so be it.August 10, 2016 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #1164457
The names and sources of studies conducted that demonstrate that sexuality can be changed have been cited.
I can trouble myself to cite more of them, But I don’t really see the point.
Instead I would like to ask you to do something.
Can you please cite the studies which prove that such therapies are dangerous? Can you cite the scientific basis for the decision to remove “alternative lifestyles” from the DSM.
And I don’t mean simply stating The APA!
I mean doing what we have done state the actual scientific sources,August 10, 2016 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #1164458
JF2 -“Health…do you understand the meaning of the word “conspiracy”?”
I do. Do you?August 11, 2016 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #1164459
Ben Levi, google “Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation”. It’s a nice summary of the scientific literature on the topic as of 2009.
Health, forget it, we’re just going in circles here.August 11, 2016 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #1164460
JF2 -“Health, forget it, we’re just going in circles here.”
Well not really. You just don’t want to admit that you’re wrong!
:a secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal
: the act of secretly planning to do something that is harmful or illegal
Organizations, like the APA, just like to be PC, even if it contradicts science!September 21, 2019 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #1788468
Simcha613- I agree with you, it is a very difficult challenge it can affect every part of their life. You either have to lie to your spouse or be honest and wonder who would ever accept you as a wife when she can always wonder if she is really loved. He can age and be that 90something year old who was always alone. The difficulty is not only in not sinning but rather in the difficulties of living alone or without the psychological emotional intimacy necessary.
If people were really concerned there would be times of organizations in the community making sure they have kosher company in their life, frum girls would be told to marry gay guys to help the shiduch crisis. No one seems to care and therefore those people are alone comments like yours would make them feel more welcome to stay in the right path.
Health – even if people were not born that way (I agree with you ) that doesn’t mean you can change it. Psychologists know very little about this and no answer To the issue is perfect. There was an organization helping people convert in the community and they were force to close down with no frum organizations coming out in their support . Many states are making such treatments illegal and we don’t hear the agudah or anyone saying much about it. Some psychologists believe you can’t cure it but you can get married first and work with ur spouse in therapy on making it work and that is frightening for many singles to go into the unknown.
On the other hand it is brought down by the rembam that if a person must commit a sin he must go out of town , wear black clothing in other words not celebrate his sins in front of all.
Prevention is the the tool ( healthy families with a father and mom who connect in a healthy way with their child)
A gay person who is able to stay in the path or even who tries hard to is probably someone who God loves very much. Specially now days that it has become so acceptable and is everywhere.
(how come no one is having huge issues with eating 🦞 lobster 🦞 – the toeivah-)
I just think we should all be giving a path to a kosher life for this people and we should pray for their mental health for them to create healthy loving kosher marriages.September 22, 2019 12:28 pm at 12:28 pm #1788591
Justme22 -“Psychologists know very little about this and no answer To the issue is perfect.”
A lot of them know a lot about it, but they avoid it because of the PC.
“There was an organization helping people convert in the community and they were force to close down with no frum organizations coming out in their support .”
The Frum org. that closed down was because they care about Lawsuits, not the correct Torah way!
“Many states are making such treatments illegal and we don’t hear the agudah or anyone saying much about it.”
They only made it Illegal for minors. But just now, the Gay president of the NYC Council is passing a revision on the Reparation Therapy Law that they passed 2 years ago. The reason for this is because of Lawsuits in Federal Court.
“Some psychologists believe you can’t cure it but you can get married first and work with ur spouse in therapy on making it work and that is frightening for many singles to go into the unknown.”
Baloney! You need therapy first. There are many therapists that still practice Reparation Therapy, but they maybe hard to find because the Gay people have made tremendous inroads in American Society.
Go to Dr. Nicolosi’s website – From there:
“In 1992, Dr. Nicolosi and two psychiatrists organized a professional association called the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH). Today, NARTH has over 1000 members around the world.”September 22, 2019 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #1788709
A consensus of experts, even a majority consensus,) is certainly a legitimate piece of evidence to consider in building a case to accept or reject a proposition. But there is a fine line (and sometimes a rather thick, albeit obscured one) between using this piece of evidence competently on the one hand and deceptively on the other.
1) A consensus of experts (COE) should be regarding a subject that is subject to expertise. Meaning, it’s the kind of thing we have lots of experience with. That is, after all, how expertise is established.
Even when criteria 1 is met…
2) COE ought to considered only if the experts have expertise (lots of experience) in the subject they are offering an opinion on
Even if criteria 2 is met…
3) We should remember that COE is one type of evidence. We ought to consider the weight of contrary evidence. If there is sufficient contrary evidence we ought to leave the matter unresolved.September 22, 2019 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #1788733
Health – I agree with you therapy before marriage and I agree with you that pc has silenced many. Unfortunately I do believe that because of that pc the topic can’t be studied properly and can’t be debated as it should be in order to find solutions.
Reparative therapy is not perfect and is not always absolution even if it can help. ( same is probably true about other types of therapy)
Many Rabbais and frum therapist dont believe reparative therapy is truly helpful so they tell couples to deal with the issue with other types of talk therapy. This are rabbais and and therapist who are not telling people to be gay , they’re are telling people to live according to torah but not through changing. They are doing a disservice to their talmidim in not dealing with the actual issue and only looking for ways to ignore the issue.September 23, 2019 12:00 am at 12:00 am #1788737
“frum girls would be told to marry gay guys to help the shiduch crisis.”
That has got to be one of the worst ideas ever stated in this forum.September 23, 2019 12:55 am at 12:55 am #1788782
Adocs – I was sarcastically making fun of the other things that boys are supposed to ignore in order to solve the shiduch crisis. I agree with you it was not a suggestion to be taken seriouslySeptember 23, 2019 12:14 pm at 12:14 pm #1788857
It is Time for TruthParticipant
actually in the right circumstances not such a bad thing according to the latest research the whole g*y genetic deviant proclivities is a sum total of 1% difference
therefore if you have the right guy with the right female to put in the effort in many cases
it may work and it has in the past as well
Indoctrinated by the Zeitgeist ?!September 25, 2019 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm #1789770
Rabbi of CrawleyParticipant
We cannot ever support murder yet this event will act as a warning for people think twice when organizing these sickening events in the holy cityOctober 18, 2019 8:05 am at 8:05 am #1793491
☢️ 🚭 ☣️ Rand0m3x 🧠🕴️🎲Participant
according to the latest research the whole g*y genetic deviant proclivities is a sum total of 1% difference
Care to explain that?
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