April 16, 2020 11:45 pm at 11:45 pm #1849811
The Biur Halacha O’CH 527 Hilchas Eruvei Tavshilin discusses the argument in Pesochim (46,2) between Rabe and Tav Chusdah if the needs of shabbos can be done on Yom Tov, Rabbe holds no and Rav Chusdah holds yes. If it cannot, we need the rule of Hoil, the guest can come and eat from it. Currently with the virus this falls away as people will not come, so how can we cook for shabbos with Eruv Tavshilin . So the Biur Halacha says that many pasken like Rav Chusdah and in shaas hadechak we can rely on them and especially second day Yom Tov.April 17, 2020 1:36 am at 1:36 am #1849884
How do we know people won’t come? Sure, they shouldn’t, and if they come we will probably lock the door and not let them in, but they could come, and we could let them in and feed them, or at least put the food outside the door for them to take and eat somewhere else.April 17, 2020 1:36 am at 1:36 am #1849887marbehshalomParticipant
i had the same question. but you still have HOIL.
if a guest would come you would leave them food outside.
that is what i did to my guests this yomtovApril 17, 2020 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #1849968
One more point: This whole question only arises according to the opinion in the gemara that Eruv Tavshilin was instituted for Kevod Shabbos. But according to the opinion that it was instituted for Kevod Yomtov the whole question doesn’t arise in the first place. According to that opinion we are not really relying on hypothetical guests; that story is just a polite fiction in order to spare Yomtov’s feelings. Everyone understands that we’re really cooking for Shabbos, but for Yomtov’s sake we pretend we’re cooking for guests that might show up, and that we really intend to subsist on Shabbos on just the egg and the matzoh that we put aside on Erev Yomtov. Since this is all just a pretense, it doesn’t matter how thin it is.April 17, 2020 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm #1849969
By the way, in Eretz Yisroel, when Shvi’i Shel Pesach falls on a Friday, in my opinion one may cook kitniyos for Shabbos, because the hypothetical guests may be Sefardim. Since we’re inventing them anyway, we can invent them any way we like.April 17, 2020 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #1850045marbehshalomParticipant
hypothetical guests dont count.
if its too late for guests to come you cant coook
but in our case you can leave them food outside like i did for my brother who visited meApril 17, 2020 5:15 pm at 5:15 pm #1850056
I don’t know if they would come to eat like a dog. אוכל בשוק דומה לכלב eating on the street is similar to a dog.April 17, 2020 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #1850119
“Marbeh”, the guests we’re cooking for are hypothetical. We are cooking (according to the first explanation; according to the second explanation we’re pretending to cook) for hypothetical guests who might hypothetically show up, but whom we have no reason to actually expect.
RE, if they don’t like to eat it outside they could take it home.April 19, 2020 10:13 am at 10:13 am #1850410
Guest used to come from other places with no homes here which currently is forbidden as the psak in Lakewood and those who live here must stay home.April 19, 2020 10:58 am at 10:58 am #1850436
RE, that is not correct. Even in Lakewood people are allowed to leave home to get food. There is no difference whether they’re getting it from a supermarket, a restaurant, or the neighbor.April 19, 2020 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #1850448April 19, 2020 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #1850581
RE, what has that got to do with the price of fish? NOBODY has said that one cannot go out to get food. How are YOU getting food, if not by going out? One can get it from a supermarket, from a restaurant, so why not from a neighbor? Who said so?
And even if this posek had said so (which he didn’t), he is not the only posek and not everyone would have to accept his psak.April 19, 2020 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #1850681
milhouse, see this whole article https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1849503/no-porch-minyanim-allowed-say-bmg-poskim.htmlApril 19, 2020 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm #1850703
Again, what has that got to do with the price of fish (or bats) in China? The same two points apply. First these poskim did not say one cannot go out to get food. I am quite sure you do so. And it would be absurd beyond belief to say that one may go to a supermarket or restaurant but not to the neighbor! Second, even if they had said it, nobody is mechuyav to accept their psak. And third, they’ve changed their minds anyway.April 19, 2020 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #1850731
milhouse, sorry I don’t know what you are talking about. The supermarket , you have no choice preferably order online to be delivered and restaurant can deliver. To go to the neighbor is unnecessary as you have your own food.April 20, 2020 12:03 am at 12:03 am #1850769
How do you know your neighbors have their own food? Did you ask?
And nobody is interested in what you prefer. The fact is that we are allowed to go to the supermarket to get food, and to restaurants to pick up orders, even if we are not literally starving. Whether you prefer to do so is your business but none of us are mechuyav to copy you.
Kol shekein we are allowed, 100%, to go to our neighbors to pick up food, even if we’re not starving, and definitely if we are. And definitely on yomtov when we can’t go to stores!
Therefore, even according to the opinion that Eruv Tavshilin is for Kevod Shabbos, i.e. we are seriously relying on the hypothetical guests to allow cooking, and even if we accept the psak of those rabbonim, which we do not have to do, we can still cook for hypothetical guests during the current crisis. And for real ones, if they actually do need.April 20, 2020 9:35 am at 9:35 am #1850895
milhouse, you argue for the benefit of arguing as the OP it does not make a difference in halacha.
We say in the hagada כל דכפין יתי ויאכול the Maasei Hashem says that we are lamenting that we are in diaspora and anyone can eat not like the korban pesach where only those ate who were counted on.
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