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r12fried – do you feel better now that you got all that off your chest?
Now, what kind of business is this?
How does such an organization earn any money?
Perhaps this is a non profit organization?
Who is funding this?
“This is a charedi office”
No, at most you can state that they dress in charedi style, just like the old “Kosher style” eateries.
Get away as far as you can before you become part of it.
Assuming this is in the United States, I wonder if there might be legal issues with their not treating you well because you don’t believe in their beliefs.
The Wolf
I always thought Frank Purdue was a gilgul of Ed Koch but I never called anyone an apikores for disagreeing with me. Maybe that’s why they never ran away from me.
I am feeling encouraged to share my own personal rant here, since it reminds me of how little patience I also have at “weird non jewish customs” making their way into our communities.
Has anyone ever heard of dowling? Well just go look it up on wikipedia or google it and you’ll see it comes from some sort of witchcraft. Well, its making its way into our charedi little shetel as I recently had a neighbor tell me how she went to a heimishe lady for a “DOWLING SESSION”. This lady does it for parnassah. It entails swinging a stick or rod around and in which manner it will move or swing she “reads & interprets” to give answers. Their Rav/Dayan said “as long as its for a refuah its ok”, according to her.
Or how about all these weird segulos like melting some ring or engraving soemthing on it and then your 3 wishes are granted or some bs like that.
I am also angry about Yoga. Its full Avodas Zara. Its roots are deep in idol worship. THere are plenty of other exercises out there. In one Jewish Community Y, they had a teacher leading the yoga class but before you knew what was happening she was describing this “Gentle stretch over” to be like we are now worshipping the sun.???
I always thought Frank Purdue was a gilgul of Ed Koch
Can you be a gilgul of someone who’s still alive? 🙂
The Wolf
(Yes, I realize you were just joking.)
To the OP; some of the activities that you enumerate are against the Torah, in addition to being whacked. But, a tiny thought is seeping (I didn’t want to use another term that rhymes with “Seeping”) into my mind. I’m just wondering if someone is not Hallucinating?
Both have looked like death warmed over since 1975.
>>>Both have looked like death warmed over since 1975. <<<
Frank Perdue has an excuse, he has been dead for over five years.
I always thought Frank Purdue was a gilgul of Ed Koch “
Nah, but do you notice you never saw them both in the same room at the same time??????
r12fried78, you havent mentioned why the boss tolerates this. Is he/she related or also involved?
Any ideas on how to predict this unique behavior from the initial interview, so that you know not to fall victim?
“I am also angry about Yoga. Its full Avodas Zara. Its roots are deep in idol worship. THere are plenty of other exercises out there. In one Jewish Community Y, they had a teacher leading the yoga class but before you knew what was happening she was describing this “Gentle stretch over” to be like we are now worshipping the sun.??? “
Yoga is actually a different kind of exercise then most. A big part of Yoga is the mindfullness and relaxation. Doing Yoga helps you learn to focus and to listen to your body. It also has wonderful stretches. I kow the origins of Yoga are religious, but in most places the instructors just use the names of the poses, without actually bringing in the religious part. Besides for that, alot of it is in sync with Judaism. For example, there is one set of stretches called the sun salutations. It is a series of stretches that relax the body. Doesn’t the Torah teach us to appreciate the fact that we have a sun? and, at the end of the day, most people dont actually bring in the religious part of it. They just call it the sun salutations because it’s the universal name for this particular set of stretches.
In conclusion- if you’re afraid practicing yoga will shaken your faith, you have bigger issues. So don’t put down people who are just trying to exercise.
I’m afraid metrodriver is right. Speak to the co-workers b4 believing her story.
I worked for a Chineese (Taiwaneese actually) owned company for a number of years and they brought in some sort of “mystic” once a month to go over the place with his “powers”. Several times a year I was asked to changed my seat because he felt the energy in the room would be better if the seating was arranged differently. The time he told me not to sit in the line of site of the elevator because someone might walk out with a gun and start shooting was surreal. I kind of miss the kookiness that went on there.
I never heard of dowling, but my friend had her daughter’s food intolerances diagnosed over the phone by a “doctor” who swing a pendulum around to know what the patient isn’t tolerating. I’ve seen it done in the presence of the patient, but over the phone was a new one to me. Not sure why it’s any worse than face to face though.
There was an article in a known Mag that featured (favorably) a woman in EY that chases away ayin hara by pouring molten lead from container to container over the persons head. I wrote in that aside from the karov la’avoda zara aspect, she was endangering peoples lives, given the toxicity of lead, lead fumes, and the danger of a spill accident. It was not publish, she had the hascoma of some local Rabbanim. Stick to the daled amos of halacha folks. Please.
movingmountains
Appreciating the sun- mutar and appripriate
Bowing to the sun, worshipping the sun, or ascribing independent mystical powers to the sun- assur as avodah zara.
We must be careful to realize that anything in the universe that has any kind of power or force comes from Hashem and Hashem is the one who put that power and force into nature and it is His Will that allows it to continue to exist. If for one nanosecond Hashem stop willing things to exist the world would go back to Tohu Vavohu.
Poster #17; apushatayid; One of the items that you enumerate, the “Mystic” on your job suggested to “Not sit in the line of sight (not site) of the elevator, because someone with a gun might walk out and start shooting. This has nothing to do with mysticism. It’s potential, hypothetical paranoid thinking. Some of the old Mafia people (Both Jewish and Italian) had this thing about not sitting with their back to the door. Reasoning, that if someone (who had reason to do so) came in shooting, they should not be shot in the back. In reality, it didn’t help much, when the time came. One of the semi-retired mobsters, who happened to be Jewish, always lived by this principle. But when the time came, the shooter came in through the kitchen door and shot him in the back. This happened around 1972.
If it was me who was working in such a place I would definitely be spending a fair amount of energy looking for a new job. Its no fun to try to get work done when surrounded by crazy people!
I know a number of these folks. The word I like to use when desribing them is intense. They are in many ways just like the rest of the population, but they have a certain something about them that just emanates from them when the talk the talk.
Then again, I suupose the same could be said for me when I talk about the rebbe, so who am I to throw rocks?
WHICH REBBE?
Mother in Israel: I must make a correction. IT is called Dowsing. And How you described your friend’s food allergy/intolerance being diagnosed by a “doctor” who swung the pendulum for answers is exactly dowsing!. This neighbor of mine which I was referring to had her food tolerance diagnosed by someone doing dowsing with the pendulum.
I don’t think I made reference to her being over the phone or in person for this. Its irrelevant anyways. But the point is that its NISHT OSGEHALTEN!!!!
Its avodah zara.
Metro. I didn’t work for a criminal enterprise located in a seedy alley. I admit to not explaining in detail the “elevator” (one of the “older models” where you pulled one cord to make it go up, another to make it stop or go down), its operability (it worked when it felt like it), how often it was used (almost never, the city wouldn’t issue a certificate permitting passenger use – only freight) or that the “mystic” placed me in that spot on an earlier visit.
” WHICH REBBE? “
I saw this one coming, Shimmel, so I thought about an answer that would satisfy all.. the Rebbe we all follow, the Rebbe of klal yisroel: (scroll down for answer)
Moshe
(what… you think the title Rabenu is just for tax purposes?)
” WHICH REBBE? “
I saw this one coming, Shimmel, so I thought about an answer that would satisfy all.. the Rebbe we all follow, the Rebbe of klal yisroel: (scroll down for answer)
Moshe
(what… you think the title Rabenu is just for tax purposes?)
This answer satisfies all? Suddenly we all have to follow this Sefardic leader, Moshe Rabbeinu? I’m not a Sefardi.
Oh, sorry Squeak. You know him under a differnt name:
“Moisheh Raabaynie”
(that’s how I refer to him too, but after all this IS CR, not the Kaavah Shteeb)
Well thanks for ruining a good joke, BPT 😉
Are you kidding? I just saved you from a barrage of mean posts slamming you for being anti sefardi.
But I don’t see a denial of being chassidish either, so what exactly are y…. uh oh. I better stop before we start the “label” thread all over again!
OK, everyone. the tribe leader is Moses (google it for alternative spellings, pronounciations and titles)
Oh come on- everyone knows I’m not anti sefardi. I was just setting up a joke, and your response stopped me from delivering the punchline 😉
Consider this a denial of being chassidish: I am not chassidish 😉
I hate to kill a great joke, so I’ll start from where you were about to jump in:
Squeak: This answer satisfies all? Suddenly we all have to follow this Sefardic leader, Moshe Rabbeinu? I’m not a Sefardi.
BPT: Oh, sorry Squeak. You know him under a differnt name:
“Moisheh Raabaynie”
(that’s how I refer to him too, but after all this IS CR, not the Kaavah Shteeb)
(your turn, Squeak)
Well thanks for ruining a good joke, BPT 😉
Oh, come on Squeak, just say it. If its funny, its still funny. You’re among friends. Just out with it!
How about we pretend you said what I was expecting as a response:
squeak: This answer satisfies all? Suddenly we all have to follow this Sefardic leader, Moshe Rabbeinu? I’m not a Sefardi.
BPT: Moshe Rabbeinu was a Sefardi? What are your sources?
squeak: Well, if he were Ashkenaz, his name would have been Moshe Rabinowitz.
Sick, but comes as no surprise. Peta nuts will go wild over a fur coat. But ask them if they have a problem with thier I-phone or I-whatever whose components come from countries that employ child labor at 10 cents an hour if that is a problem..?
They can’t answer, becuase they did’nt hear the question. The music was playing too loud.
twisted:
“There was an article in a known Mag that featured (favorably) a woman in EY that chases away ayin hara by pouring molten lead from container to container over the persons head. I wrote in that aside from the karov la’avoda zara aspect, she was endangering peoples lives, given the toxicity of lead, lead fumes, and the danger of a spill accident. It was not publish, she had the hascoma of some local Rabbanim. Stick to the daled amos of halacha folks. Please.”
This woman does not only have the haskama of “hascoma of some local Rabbanim”, she has the haskama of the Gedoli Hador. (Although technically, I suppose they are her local Rabbanim.) I spoke to somebody who went to her, and he told me that he actually saw little eyes appear in the lead. Segulos and Kabbalah are real. Overused and often faked, but still real.
I did check out the memorial site for the cat. Nothing Jewish about it.
MW13, you seriously believe that this nonsense is real? I don’t think it is a problem of Avodah Zara, I think it is a problem of shtus.
BTW, if you ever find one of these types who you are convinced has real powers, please let me know, and buy me a lottery ticket with his predictions. I promise I will pay the cost of the ticket.
Else, email me his stock picks for the week.
Sheesh.
Doesn’t this fall under the category of kishuf?
my comment is to r12fried78’s initial comments.
Yoga is based in Avoda Zarah, but most frum people don’t realize it. And there are even frum people who teach yoga classes. They look at it as exercise and relaxation, not realizing that the motions are based on mamesh A”Z.
mw13- I think that the gemara does talk about ayin hara and notes that it is a real force in this world. Further, I think that the lead antidote is also from the gemara
twisted,
Whatever the case about its validity, but in what way do you call it Avoda Zara? I never heard of anyone saying, “Oh, mighty Ayin Hara, please give me, your slave, life and sustenance.”
“I am also angry about Yoga. Its full Avodas Zara.”
Not necessarily. My wife is training to be a yoga teacher and her mentor is also frum. The fact that something is done by other religions does not make it automatically asur!
“Doesn’t the Torah teach us to appreciate the fact that we have a sun?”
Indeed we say a blessing on the sun every 28 years!
Apushatayid- I know a frum woman who brought one of these gurus into her home to do what your company did. I also heard of a frum homeopath who does things with energy healing. Don’t ask me if they have any heterim!
MW13: “Twisted” happens to be right in this argument. This thing about pouring lead or Paraffin is all a fantasy, albeit a harmless one. About the person who went to that lady in Jerusalem who poured lead over someone’s head, and he saw a pair (or pairs) of eyes in the lead. It’s all in the imagination. I witnessed a similar session by someone (an older, benign lady.) who poured melted Paraffin, and that person claimed to see figures of animals and I saw nothing but random formations. It’s all in the mind. When someone believes in this nonsense, they will see any shapes and formations that they want to see. Furthermore. I don’t believe one mainstream Rav will give his consent to something that borders on “Kishuff”, (Sorcery) which is forbidden by the Torah!
What’s wrong with energy healing? Last I checked, the Gemara excludes healing from the lists. That is besides the fact that you can’t be doing Kishuf without knowing about it. Neither can a certain behavior be Avoda Zara, without being in front of one or having one in mind. The people who do dowsing don’t know how it works, and therefore cannot fall into either category. Perhaps, you’d be able to call it Kosem, or Goralos, but even that has to be weighed carefully. I don’t think either of those apply to the present, though. It shouldn’t be worse than asking over oil where a lost item is.
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