March 11, 2012 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #602438susheeMember
A close relative is dating (actually beshowing – and they go quick) a Gerror boy. She is from a heimish family. She has a sister married to a Chasidish (non-Ger) guy, and another sister married to a Yeshivish guy, and another married to a heimishe guy. I’ve heard that Gerrers have uncommon restrictions for their wives, though I never understood what. Supposedly this guy is open-minded and doesn’t intend to follow these chumros, whatever they are.
Does anyone know what these chumros are and how they apply or anything else that would be useful to know?March 11, 2012 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #861432
they have a very weird blueprint for a husband-wife relationship. if he doesnt plan on keeping their weirdnesses then fine, but you should have them ask specifics. you’d be very surprised. And for those on here that will call me a hater, you should ask someone who is involved and knows what they do. You would be very surprised.March 11, 2012 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #861433
They are noheg to walk a few steps ahead of the wife, when walking in public.March 11, 2012 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #861434ED IT ORParticipant
they are me’Gayer the wifeMarch 11, 2012 11:43 pm at 11:43 pm #861435
Gabi- you wish that was the worst of it.March 11, 2012 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm #861436
They are noheg to generally follow the rules of nidah even when the wife is not a nidah and keep contact with spouse to a bare minumumMarch 12, 2012 12:02 am at 12:02 am #861437Derech HaMelechMember
Supposedly this guy is open-minded and doesn’t intend to follow these chumros, whatever they are.
What does open-mindedness have to do with not following the chumros of one’s sect? Open-minded means a Klausenberger willing to open up a Divrei Yoel. I think the correct term here though is poresh min hatzibbur.March 12, 2012 12:18 am at 12:18 am #861438yitayningwutParticipant
I love how the term “open-minded” somehow came to mean less machmir.
If you think about it, it’s very condescending. But then again, everyone thinks that they’re the definition of normal. Everyone to the right and everyone to the left are truly just a bunch of closed-minded extremists.March 12, 2012 12:30 am at 12:30 am #861439HaKatanParticipant
I have NO IDEA if the rumors I’ve encountered are or are not true, but my understanding is that there are MANY more chumros, and **some of those are of a MUCH more life-changing nature**, than “walking a few steps ahead”.
I would advise DEFINITELY consulting a trusted family Rav, JUST IN CASE it is an issue for this particular potential couple.
May there be many beautiful simchas in Klal Yisrael.March 12, 2012 12:41 am at 12:41 am #861440ItcheSrulikMember
Some are gerrer chasidim don’t call their wives by her first name even in private. There are other chumros that can’t be posted here.March 12, 2012 1:16 am at 1:16 am #861441
Rule one, do NOT rely on anything you read on a blog.
There are ways to get accurate, pertinent information, a blog is not the way.
The people involved should speak to their moreh derech and the shadchan to clarify the issues.March 12, 2012 2:00 am at 2:00 am #861442
They are noheg to generally follow the rules of nidah even when the wife is not a nidah
Well, that’s *obviously* not true. If it were, no Gerrer couple could ever have a child.
The WolfMarch 12, 2012 2:17 am at 2:17 am #861443
Haaretz did an article on this, you can google itMarch 12, 2012 2:19 am at 2:19 am #861444
Wolf, except for absolute minimum they dont even touch
Husband and wife dont even hold hands in privateMarch 12, 2012 2:23 am at 2:23 am #861445LogicianParticipant
I would object to calling their behavior “chumros”.
Many Gedolei Yisroel have publicly protested these “hanhagos” as against the Torah.March 12, 2012 2:24 am at 2:24 am #861446
I would trust Haaretz as much as I do the Iranian News Agency.March 12, 2012 2:31 am at 2:31 am #861447
Just because its in Haaretz doesnt mean its wrong, if you know anything about Gur and you read the article. It basically confirms what you think you knowMarch 12, 2012 2:32 am at 2:32 am #861448wanderingchanaParticipant
I read recently that Ger started their own girls’ schools to prepare girls to marry their boys, which non-Ger girls didn’t want to do when they found out about the restrictions.March 12, 2012 3:31 am at 3:31 am #861449NatMember
Actually, the “chumros” you describe were the minhag of all chassidishe dynasties before the war. All these “chumros” are based on halacha and chassidus – but this is not the forum for these discussions. The Gerrer Rebbes z”l were of the greatestin all the previous generations, they surely knew right from wrong – it takes some chutzpa to knock them and their “shitos”.
In any case, suprisingly enough, with all the talk about the Gerrers and their “chumros”, all the ones that I know are very happily married – wonders of wonders. There is a much smaller percentage of divorces in their society than in the general “heimish” society – so they must be doing something right.
If you go to Haaretz to get your info, you are in bad shape (i.e. your yiddishkeit is of low quality).
Nishtdayngesheft said it right – talk to your Rov and shadchan. Don’t go to bloggers for “eitzos” – they will surely steer you wrong.
By the way, I don’t know where you live, but if you live in Boro Park, you can see them walking with their wives on Shabbos and Yom Tov – looks pretty normal to me.
Good luckMarch 12, 2012 3:43 am at 3:43 am #861450LogicianParticipant
Nat – you obviously don’t know what hanhagos we are talking about. These are innovations in Ger itself, and the Gedolim came out strongly, basically saying that one who acts as such is a “me’aneis”.
In Eretz Yisroel they keep a different standard than in America. That is a fact.March 12, 2012 6:53 am at 6:53 am #861451a maminParticipant
Ger today is not what it used to be and all of you should stay out of someone elses bedroom!March 12, 2012 7:00 am at 7:00 am #861452moi aussiMember
There’s a famous letter from the Steipler who came out very strongly against these “hanhagos”.March 12, 2012 8:31 am at 8:31 am #861453
To prove my previous point,
Here you have Zahavasdad quoting Haaretz.
From bad to worse.March 12, 2012 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #861454
The real issue is not the Gerrer customs. The Issue is if the OP’s cousins know these customs and is willing to accept them and if she doesnt know them should the OP tell her and accept the ramifications if he tells her. (And I dont mean halachic problems, I am sure there is room Halachically to tell her, I mean FAMILY problems.)
Would he want to be the one who broke up a Shidduch “to a fine boy and fine family”.
About discussing these on an anonymous blog, the fact of the matter is these topics are somewhat secretive and if you asked your Rov he would not tell you and if you asked a Gerrer Chussid, they probably would not tell you either.March 12, 2012 1:00 pm at 1:00 pm #861455gavra_at_workParticipant
When in doubt, get a prenuptial.
I would be concerned enough to mention it outright.March 12, 2012 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #861458
You say “if you asked your Rov he would not tell you”. This says more about your realtionship with a Rov than anything else.
If you even have one.
What you say is completely false for anyone who has a Rov.
This also explains your posts in general.March 12, 2012 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #861459
Can you prove the haaretz article is wrong?
Before you condemn the article why not read it.
Its main source is a woman named Nava Wasserman who is getting her PHd from Bar Ilan on GurMarch 12, 2012 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #861460bptParticipant
I’ll weigh in with a joke:
Shmerel: “Hey, Chaim Yankel, word in the shteeble is, you were seen talking to your wife in the grocery store. Have you lost your mind?”
Chaim Yankel: “What! That’s not true! It was not my wife! Waddya think, I lost my mind?”March 12, 2012 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #861461
You should read the Haaretz article. (I think it was two parts.)
Just because Haaretz is generally anti-settlements doesn’t mean it’s anti-religious. Haaretz is the most neutral and even pro-chareidi secular newspaper in Israel. Gideon Levy regularly defends chareidim, and they have written numerous completely factual, objective and even positive articles about the chareidi world.
The badmouthing of Haaretz amongst chareidim is usually based on what they heard from Zionist acquaintances. Those chareidim badmouthing Haaretz usually never even once read anything from Haaretz themselves.March 12, 2012 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #861462cherrybimParticipant
At age 3, my daughter was banned from a ger shtible because they said although she was all covered up, but her dress was too provocative. Very holy people these gers.March 12, 2012 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #861463rabbiofberlinParticipant
I just went on the Haaretz website and found the article (actually by Tamar Rotem) that describes the above questions pretty extensively, in a study by Nava Wasserman (a chareidi woman, by the way). I will not detail them here but suffice it to be said that it has an approach that defies gemara and rishonim. However, if the people who follow Gur chassidus wants to do it, it is their option.March 12, 2012 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #861464
I must also note there are indeed plenty of people who are affiliated with Ger but do not actually follow all of those rules and have more Yeshivishe-style lives and dress.
The OP said the boy said he would not want to follow all Ger stringencies – then it should be fine. But they should discuss the exact expectations from both of them in advance.March 12, 2012 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #861465ItcheSrulikMember
Nat: Actually most of them are the Beis Yisroel’s takkanos.March 12, 2012 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #861466chaimboruchMember
the minhagim of Ger are restrictive in a certain way for non-gerrers, however most gerrers in the US do not follow in those ways, and many in EY dont either.
chances are, if he is a good bochur, he probably does not even know of these chumras- it will depend where he learns his halachos, what he will hold.
Be happy for the couple. Gerers have no less shalom bayis with thein HanHagos.
To think of it, The Yeshivish people have more hanhgas then balay Batim, such as day 31, Or Ohr Zerua, should you tell them? this is the fact of life. The Yeshivish are just as happily married then the bali batim, or the MO that have less halachals!March 12, 2012 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #861467rabbiofberlinParticipant
in answer to the posters who write that “they should discuss it in advance’. are you serious? do you know what those “hanhogos’are? who should discuss it- the parents? it doesn’t concern them. the boy and girl? you can’t be serious!
my advice would be- don’t get involved in something you may regret! and, by the way, itchesrulik is right- these are very recent ‘takonos”.March 13, 2012 1:08 am at 1:08 am #861468Derech HaMelechMember
At age 3, my daughter was banned from a ger shtible because they said although she was all covered up, but her dress was too provocative. Very holy people these gers.
That’s not so outlandish. My R”Y didn’t let girls over the age of three into the beis midrash (which is where we also davened) at all. Why should your daughter be in the men’s section anyway?March 13, 2012 1:38 am at 1:38 am #861469susheeMember
Mazal Tov! MAZAL TOV!!March 13, 2012 2:25 am at 2:25 am #861470writersoulParticipant
HaMelech: Who says she wasn’t in the women’s section (assuming there was one)?
sushe: Mazal Tov! So everything was resolved in the end? Or did it not come up?March 13, 2012 6:35 am at 6:35 am #861471HaKatanParticipant
chaimboruch, that’s a ridiculous comparison.
Day 31 is not a major life-affecting halacha, very unlike the nidon didan. So, yes, Day 31 is not necessary to be up-front about when any chassan/kallah would learn about such shitos in their classes. But none of the (non-Gur, certainly) girls will learn about those of the nidon didan.
Mo is not relevant here.March 13, 2012 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #861472ChossonMember
Shame of all of you!!March 13, 2012 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #861473
yes,yes. Shame of all of us.March 13, 2012 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #861474
Shame of all of you!!
Aside from the fact that my very existence is shameful, why should I be shamed for this thread?
The WolfMarch 13, 2012 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #861475ChossonMember
You don’t appreciate the kedusha and tehara of the Gerrer Chassidim, Ok I understand you. You know why?
Once a Mizrachi came to the previous Gerrer Rebbe the Pnei Menachem Zt”l, and asked him why Ger needs to be so restrictive in it’s ways (Bochurim didn’t go into groceries etc.), I go to Tel Aviv all the time, he said, and I don’t feel anything when I see women.
The Pnei Menachem answered him:
If you go to the desert and you see Bedouins walking barefoot on the sand and rocks, and it doesn’t even bother them, do you perhaps think, why is it that I need to wear shoes and even with shoes, if a small pebble gets into my shoes it greatly disturbs me, and here they are walking around like this, as if nothing happened?
The answer is, obviously it doesn’t hurt them because walk like that so often that they are insensitive to the dirt and pain. So is true in our case, said the Rebbe, our chassidim are so clean and eidel that every little think does bother them, but doesn’t this make you a Bedoiun.!?!?!
To all my Bedoin freinds in the Coffe Room… ?????March 13, 2012 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #861476Sam2Participant
Chosson: Don’t call it Kedusha and Tahara. If the people who have these Hanhagos are happy with them, fine. I can appreciate a lifestyle that I don’t personally understand. I can live with that. But don’t call it Kedusha and Tahara. Having such a Hanhaga (assuming it’s not against Halachah) doesn’t make one any more Kadosh or Tahor than anyone else.March 13, 2012 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #861477gavra_at_workParticipant
You don’t appreciate the kedusha and tehara of the Gerrer Chassidim
Boruch Hashem. Me and the Steipler, it’s good company to keep.
Better than having the Commendant keeping me “company”. ;-(March 13, 2012 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #861478
Why should someone take upon a Chumra that they dont even know existsMarch 13, 2012 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #861479MDGParticipant
Thanks for the anecdotal story which proves nothing. Your mind is like the Bedouin’s foot; it can’t feel logic. Most people here are not Mizrachi. But you seem to think that if it’s not Ger then it must be not frum or pseudo-frum, lacking in “kedusha and tehara”. Not true. Everyone here is interested in following Halacha. We may differ as to what is the Halacha depending on our Mesora, Rabbanim, etc. You can call any practice “kedusha and tehara”, but it does not make it halacha.
BTW, why do you put down Mizrachi people? Why do Gerrer have so much Sinah?March 13, 2012 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #861480
You don’t appreciate the kedusha and tehara of the Gerrer Chassidim
Why is my home any less filled with kedusha and tahara because I choose to hold hands with my wife in our home? What is it about a married couple holding hands that is so intrinsically lacking in kedusha and tahara that a Gerrer home is so much more filled with it than mine on that basis alone?
The WolfMarch 13, 2012 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #861481
If someone says Tikun Chatzos every midnight, that practice might fairly be described as kedusha vtahara. Now, that doesn’t mean that all the people who do not say Tikun Chatzos lack any kedusha vtahara. Just that those that do have an extra kedusha’dika practice.
Nothing wrong with that. And same principle here I believe.March 13, 2012 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #861482MDGParticipant
“If someone says Tikun Chatzos every midnight, that practice might fairly be described as kedusha vtahara. “
Tikkun Chatzot is mentioned as a halacha in the Shulchan Aruch and accepted by all. It’s not a new minhag that some Gedolim, like the Steipler, argued against.
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