Davening Survey

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    As I stand by the Shtieblach and watch the traffic from the people coming and going from Davening it is interesting to notice that there are 6 categories of people as I see it. (Sorry I only analyzed shachrit so far)

    1. Those who come a few minutes before Davening.

    2. Those who come in exactly at the posted time.

    3. Those who come by Hodu.

    4. Those who come between Hodu and Barchu.

    From which category are you?


    Wow that’s nice!

    We should start a ladies’ thread too! We should all try to daven a little more!


    Before even thinking about moving up a slot, I think people have to think about why they come to daven in the first place.

    Sadly, I think many come simply out of habit.

    The same way most brush their teeth when they get up in the morning – automatically, they daven every morning – automatically.

    How many of us, if we had an appointment to speak with an important politician, or someone who might be extremely helpful to us in the business world with our parnassa, would show up even one minute late, without giving ourselves a few extra minutes to compose ourselves, our thoughts, and prepare what we wanted to say to the chashuv person.

    How many of us, before davening, think about the fact that we are about to speak to the very same HaSh-m that created the Universe, the very same Being that split the Yam Suf, the very same HaSh-m that swallowed up Korach and his followers, the very same All-Powerful G-d that spoke to the Avos, to Moshe Rabainu, to all the nevi’im, and did all the neesim in Tanach. We, little, unworthy creatures that we are, are about to speak directly to the Creator of time and space, to The One who can answer ANY prayer in the blink of an eye if He wills it.

    If we can think about this, if we can internalize it, there will be no question which “category” we want to be in.

    If we have NOT thought about this, with Mashiach knocking on the door, it is time for all of us to start.


    Great idea!

    I’m from 3. What I don’t understand is why some shul’s post the zman for both Brochos and Hodu.


    How about people that skip korbanos altogether.

    As far as I know the only time it is muttar to skip korbanos is if you won’t make tefillah b’tzibur but ONLY if it happens once in a really rare while- NOT on a daily basis. Even then it needs to be made up after davening.

    I had a rebbe that said “korbanos was not a printing error in the siddur”


    you’re talking about zmanim; at least as important-kavana! let’s work on that as well

    Yoin from BP

    There is also a catagory 6 1/2 for those who do come to the shul building but shmooz in the vestabule (with Talis & Tfillin and coffee). Not sure how much they actually ‘daven’.

    I once picked up a young married man at about 7:30 IN BORO PARK who, when asked, told me that he doesn’t have time to daven in shul. I’m afraid that those like him would be a catagory #7.


    Telshe Yeshiva and very many “ultra-orthodox” Battei Knisios do not say Korbanos as part of their Nusach


    B”H, I’ve worked and worked and gotten myself up to a category 1, for the most part.

    I also see people come in late – even after the minyan has started Shmoneh Esray. I often wonder (to myself) how late a person can come in and still be considered as davening with the minyan. Is there a point where a person is so late that it’s not davening with a minyan? (During the week I usually daven at the last minyan on the yishuv, so suggesting that people go to a later minyan won’t work here.)


    If at all possible, I aim for one minyan, but if I see I need to skip things between Baruch Sheomar and Yishtabach, I’ll do so, in order to catch Shemone Esrai. If I see I’ll never catch them, I just wait for the next minyan thats starting, but I might listen to kriyas hatorah at the missed minyan, as the 15 miuntes saved in the morning sometimes makes a huge difference. That’s on weekdays.

    On Sundays (or days off) I’ll simply wait till the next minyan. Shabbos, there’s enougth time to catch up, even if I arrive 15 minutes late, so that’s rarely an issue.

    But you are right; korbanos is just that. a korban.Not sure why, but it just is. There is no way I can say all that in 5 minutes (the ammt of time alloted from after Brachos till the start of Hoidu)


    Now that I have said all this let me try to put it into practice.


    its really not so nice to judge people coming in late.


    unless they are yourself

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