- This topic has 85 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 1 week, 5 days ago by .
-
Posts
-
Common Saychel: Your most recent comment in this discussion
is 100% MOTZI SHEM RA X 5. You are GUARANTEED GEHINOM.And I do not feel sorry for you, because you truly deserve it.
@square root a large percentage of orthadox jews (satmar, dushinsky, perushim, all talmidim of slabodka, all talmidim of cervron, toldos aharon, toldos avrohom yitzchok ect.) are against zionism.
This goes against your comment What the Satmar Rebbe did in the 1950s is Ancient History and is no longer relevant.
After The Holocaust, anti-Zionism became
much less popular among Jews,
and after the Six Day War of 1967 CE,
anti-Zionism became even less popular among JewsRightJew:
Let’s rewrite that to reflect reality.
“Pro-Zionism” rantings of “Religious Zionists” serve to sanitize the great evils and Jew-hatred promoted by their idol.
“Pro-Zionism” Jew haters exploit their idolatry of Zionism to legitimize Zionist shmad and persecution of our fellow Jews under their jackboot.@aheimisher
the overwhelming majority of gdolei yisrael were against zionism , not only talmidim of the mosdot you mention …
on the other hand – it still could be that certain things satmar rebbe said or advocated for in the 1950’s , are not relevant in todays world …
.
.RightJew said:
“Allah’s Messenger said,
“The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews,
and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say.
“O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”
( sunnah dot com/bukhari:2926 )__________________________________________
MY RESPONSE:Thank you very much for this accurate and valuable quote.
I already verified the link that goes with the quote.This Hadith – which preaches that ALL JEWS must be KILLED by Muslims
— appears seven [7] times in the Hadith. There are two versions of this Hadith:In the first version, which you already quoted,
the Last Jew is hiding behind a rock,
before he is KILLED by a Muslim.In the second version, the Last Jew is hiding behind a tree,
before he is KILLED by a Muslim.In all versions, the Last Jew On Earth is KILLED by a Muslim,
which completes GENOCIDE against ALL JEWS – even those Jews
who are non-Zionist, and even those Jews who are anti-Zionist!The wicked brainwashed Neturei Karta *** NEVER *** talk about
this quote from Islamic holy books, because it contradicts their
false version of Jewish History, which falsely claims
that there was no Muslim anti-Semitism, before “The Zionists”.May G*D punish them for relentlessly spreading lies
that mislead both Jews and Goyim.micro,
Let’s rewrite that to reflect reality:
“Anti-Zionism” rantings of “Nazi Kapos” serve to publicize the great evils and Jew-hatred promoted by their false god and sole commandment.
“Anti-Zionism” NK Jew haters exploit their false god of Anti-Zionism to legitimize Anti-Zionist mockery and persecution of Gedolei Hador under their jackboot.You share in their heresy and guilt!
After the Balfour Declaration, in HaTekufah HaGedolah, page 174 to 175,
Rabbi Meir Simcha of Dvinsk (born in 1843 CE & died in 1926 CE)
wrote that “the fear of The [Three] Oaths has departed.”He expressed his approval of Religious Zionism
in Sare HaMeah, Volume 6, pages.233 to 234.RightJew said:
“(In March 627 [CE]) the Messenger of God [Mohammed]
breakfasted at the market and gave instructions for a furrow
to be dug there in which to bury those to be killed…The Messenger of God [Mohammed] sat
with the distinguished among his companions.He called for the men of the (Jewish tribe of) Banu Qurayza,
and they came out at a leisurely pace, and their heads were cut off.”__________________________________________
MY RESPONSE:Thank you for publicizing this relevant but little-known historic incident.
Please allow me to add 3 details that you did not mention:
[1] In the massacre described above,
more than 800 Jewish men had their head chopped off.[2] In the massacre described above, ALL widows and orphans
of more than 800 Jewish men were made into SLAVES.[3] Muslims are required, by their religion, to believe that
this incident describes the most correct and most righteous behavior,
for all Muslims, in all generations, forever.__________________________________________
Radical anti-Zionist fanatics want all Jews to believe that
“Jews and Muslims were at peace with each other,
before the Zionists ruined everything”.That statement is the opposite of the truth,
and it can only be believed by people who know nothing about
the History of Islam and nothing about History of Jews in Muslim lands.I wasn’t here at the beginning of the “dialogue” that we’re having, but I think that the Strong Anti-Tzionists here don’t seem to understand that there is a difference between protesting Giyus as opposed to protesting the existence of the Medinah. I don’t see why that’s so hard to understand.
And on a different note, I do believe that many people in the NK-leaning camp seem to not understand the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims in Islamic Empires, but the best way to MeKatzer the history is as follows: There was an era of Islamic history that the Muslims were more rationalistic with their Islam and thus not into the fanatical Islamism you see in Azzah and Syria today. The situation is relatively worse today for numerous reasons including the fact that Islamic society has been on the decline for quite some time. That’s what happens when all you do is express jealousy and envy of those who are more successful than you. The first murder was a result of jealousy, and we don’t protest with the Wild that express such jealousy.
@kgn
being “haredi” by names means rejecting the “zionist” state. You could argue that the “agudah” camp of the charedi world makes a (self-described illogical and abstract ‘horaas shu’ah’ see sefer “Biyas Hazman”) distinction between the zionist identity and the practical functions of the government, the chraedi Gedolim still unanimously protest the existence of the state in the same way their predecessors unanimously protest the existence of the Nazi regime in Europe.Again, I challenge you as I have challenged others here to find any Torah source, (seforim, sh”ut or otherwise) by Gedolim who have said differently (this includes Rav Shach as well as Lubavitcher Rebbe).
KGN said this in the YWN Coffee Room on 2025 January 10:
“Some Jews have a hatred against Medinat Yisrael that is so great
that they have no other focus other than this.
Thus, some Jews have dedicated their lives to dismantling of Medinat Yisrael,
even at the expense of the lives of millions of Jews….”somejew :
the chraedi Gedolim still unanimously protest the existence of the state in the same way their predecessors unanimously protest the existence of the Nazi regime in Europe.—
this statement by somejew is obviously ridiculous . even a ten year old would know that …
the following statement is the real correct statement :
the NK nutjobs including the vile somejew , still unanimously lie about the position of mainstream charedi gdolim about the existence of the state in exactly the same way the Nazi regime unanimously lied about the Jewish People in Europe.
.
.@SQUARE_ROOT has still not apologized for cursing Jews on this forum so his nonsense will be ignored here.
@RightJew (Wrong, in fact.)
None other than Rabbi Dr. Soloveichik, head of Mizrachi, openly stated that everyone knows that Zionist and its “State” caused a skyrocketing jump in the hatred of Arabs against Jews (because the Zionists lied that they the Zionists were acting in the name of Jews).No, it was not a paradise for a Jew to have lived under Muslim rule, but Jews did far, far better under Muslim rule than they did under Christian rule. And, more to the point, the decades leading up to the 20th century were far, far more peaceful for Jews in the holy land than were the decades after the Zionists invaded the holy land. This is simple fact, and only Zionist idolaters refuse to acknowledge that.
So, no, it is not Satmar that is “radical”, as Satmar is in fact mainstream Torah, as opposed to Zionist idolatry which is extremely radical – redefining Judaism into Zionism, etc. NK isn’t relevant to typical conversations, but they obviously would hold similarly on the core issues.
R Soloveitchik was not the head of Mizrachi, he switched his support from Agudah to them, but he had his own independent opinions. He did not use scare-quotes around the word “state”. He certainly criticizes non-religious leaders of Israel on various issues but I did not encounter where he blames them for ” skyrocketing jump in the hatred of Arabs” – could you clarify where he says that?
again, comparison with Muslim rule pre-20th century is a good explanation of the views at the time, but post-WW2 muslims did not treat Jews better than the West. Is this temporary? my guess is as good as yours, but those who were betting on good life under them were wrong – not as wrong as the bet for staying in Poland between Nazis and Commies, but still wrong.
R Soloveitchik writes on the fight between Yaakov and an anonymous ish – that this symbolizes that we often do not know where the danger will come from: we sense the danger, but the name is unknown.
So, no, it is Satmar that is considered radical by the majority of yehudim ma’aminim, as
Satmar is considered as mainstream Torah, ONLY by satmar minded people , a vocal but clear minority of orthodox people all around the world .
your credibility would lift immensely if you would acknowledge this clear fact , which even any ten year old in any community knows to be true ….
.
.No, it was not a paradise for a Jew to have lived under Muslim rule, but Jews did overall better under Muslim rule than they did under Christian rule. And, more to the point, the decades leading up to the 20th century were more peaceful for Jews in the holy land than were the decades after the Zionists invaded the holy land. This is simple fact.
A simple , but TOTALLY IRRELEVANT fact …. .
.
Yankel: HaKatan is absolutely 100% correct. The entire Torah world and Gedolei Yisroel always considered the Satmar Rebbe ztvk’l of the greatest of the great Gedolei Yisroel. Even when they might have quibbled over some nuances. By and large all of the Gedolei Yisroel from the Litvish and Chasidish worlds and the Satmar Rebbe agreed with each other on all major points.
read the previous post of mine and have to correct it …
the following is the correct version-
No, it was not a paradise for a Jew to have lived under Muslim rule, but Jews did many times, better under Muslim rule than they did under Christian rule. And, the decades leading up to the 20th century were more peaceful for Jews in the holy land than were the decades after the Zionists settled and developed the holy land. This is a simple fact.
A simple , but TOTALLY IRRELEVANT fact …. .
.
Yankel Berel has mentioned an important idea:
The fanatical anti-Zionists are endlessly obsessed with ideas that are:
inaccurate, or irrelevant, or unverifiable conjectures, or outdated minority opinions.Their thinking is clumsy and filled with mistakes.
@UJM:
depends what you consider ‘major points’
if it is the 13 ikarim , then yes
if it is that the mere existence of the medina is stopping mashiach from coming , then no
you can go on and on about things which are very major in satmars eyes , which are simply not accepted in mainstream haredi judaism
besides , no one ever , incuding me , ever called satmar rav’s personal gadlut in to question
that was never the issue
the main issue is the false and crooked impression that somehow all haredim hold of satmar view of the medina
any astute child knows that not to be true
and that is still bemeizid misrepresented by revisionists like ujm , somejew and katan …
.
.ujm is giving a false and crooked impression
as if the satmar view that the mere existence of the medina is stopping mashiach from coming
is somehow accepted in mainstream haredi judaism
this is sheker and plain baloney
it is time ujm is modeh al ha’emet …..
.
.we need your honest answer …
Hate of The Jews – A Historical Inheritance [2020 – printed in Gaza]
No Future [for the Jew] within the Nations [2008 – printed in Algeria]These are the titles of the books , published by Dr Alhazar , Founding Father and Member of Politburo of Hamas and ex Foreign Minister of the Hamas government of Gaza.
In it , the esteemed author makes several extremely popular statements. Popular with his readership , the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank. And with the Palestine – supporting outsiders . A copy of his book was found on the ‘humanitarian’ 2010 Mavi Marmara flotilla whose travelers’ ostensible goal was nothing more than providing aid to suffering Gazan Arabs .
Within those books the following gems are to be found ….
– The Jews were killed in Germany because they helped the enemy
– All misfortunes suffered by the Jews anywhere over the generations are their own fault
– The Koran encourages the killing of Jews
– All Jews have to be driven out of Palestine
– The Jew is the historical center of evil, hated by the entire world
– The endgame is the total uprooting of the Jew , which will happen at the End of Days, may it happen with Allah’s help
——————————————————-
These are the friends of somejew , of ujm , flamingOTD and katan
These are the people who are naturally next in line to take over governance of EY , when the fervent wishes of somejew , katan , flamingOTD and ujm for the collapse of the hated medina will materialize …
The very minute the IDF stops its work , those ‘people’ are taking over ….
No one besides the IDF is prepared to suffer dead and wounded to stop those ‘people’
No outside force will risk the lives of their soldiers to confront those fanatics
This is clear to anyone not bribed by ideological blinkers ….
.
.On Sunday, 2024 January 14, around 60 Neturei Karta members
protested AGAINST the freeing of Jewish hostages in Gaza,
who were taken hostage by Hamas terrorists.This anti-Torah protest happened outside the Monsey Municipal Building.
SOURCE: Monsey Scoop and article titled: “REVOLTING: Neturei Karta
Protests After Ramapo Town Supervisor Calls For Hostages’ Release”
2024 January 15, www (dot) TheYeshivaWorld (dot) com__________________________________________
When Rabbi Shteinmann ZTL ZYA came to Monsey,
the Neturei Karta spit on his face.When will we Jews get SERIOUS about stopping this very dangerous evil?
__________________________________________
According to an article by Yerachmiel HaLevi on 2023 November 10
on Quora dot com, the Neturei Karta “RAISE MONEY”
for Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran.When will we get SERIOUS about stopping the Neturei Karta?
@square_root
looked at the article. none of those speakers were NK. None of the speakers posted spoke about hostages, hamas, or raising money. None of the signs mentioned anything about hostages, hamas, or razing any money.NK, afaik, has never raised money for any non-jewish groups.
NK has many resources online their website as well as other content. What have you ever seen by them that is against the Torah (please quote with honest context)?
somejew asked where the NK is against the torah ???
The following are the Hamas’ ikarei emuna:
– The Jews were killed in Germany because they helped the enemy
– All misfortunes suffered by the Jews anywhere over the generations are their own fault
– The Koran encourages the killing of Jews
– All Jews have to be driven out of Palestine
– The Jew is the historical center of evil, hated by the entire world
– The endgame is the total uprooting of the Jew , which will happen at the End of Days, may it happen with Allah’s help
——————————————————-
These are the people who are naturally next in line to take over governance of EY , when the fervent wishes of the NK for the collapse of the hated medina will materialize …
The very minute the IDF stops its work , those ‘people’ are taking over ….
No one besides the IDF is prepared to suffer dead and wounded to stop those ‘people’
No outside force will risk the lives of their soldiers to confront those fanatics
This is clear mass pikuach nefesh.
Clear to anyone not bribed by ideological blinkers ….
NK are advocating for mass pikuach nefesh chvsh
Much like reform are advocating for driving on shabbat
Against the torah
.
.Several weeks ago, UJM told us that he wants to dismantle
The State of Israel and give the land to the USA.But if you listen to The Neturei Karta,
they want to give the land to the so-called “Palestinians”.You know— the Phoney-stinians — the people who killed Jewish athletes
at the Munich Olympic games, and hijacked many airplanes,
and started a civil war in Jordan, and destroyed Lebanon,
and want to KILL ALL [100%] JEWS.This Neturei Karta “plan” would cause ANOTHER HOLOCAUST,
with 8,000,000 Jews in Eretz Yisrael being mercilessly massacred,
including millions of Jewish children and babies.Even if UJM was being honest when he said that,
his statement is still somewhat misleading because
it is a minority opinion among radical anti-Zionists.There is also a Halachic prohibition against giving non-Jews ownership of Eretz Yisrael.
Most American politicians — even Donald Trump, who is very pro Jewish —
would strongly oppose using American soldiers to protect Eretz Yisrael’s Jews
from relentless never-ending attacks from Muslim terrorists.As far as I have ever seen, all they do is express mainstream Torah teachings. If you have a problem with the Torah (like most religious zionists do), that’s a YOU problem. If you have heard NK communicate anything that is not Torah, please tell me know what it is (of course, with context and sources).
I’ve seen an interview where an NK spokesman was asked a question similar to yours: “who should replace the zionist government. hamas?” His answer was simple: (paraphrased by me) NK is not a political group. they don’t have a practical agenda, rather they are a religious group whose goal is to correct the public record on real Judaism and communicate the true ideology of the Torah.
While I have a hard time endorsing some of their practical tactics to communicate this message, I do relate very much to this distinction as outlined above. One of the core heresies of zionism is the idea that we Jews must take our destiny into our own hands. This is what they coin “self-determination”, which is the exact opposite of the Torah belief in Hashguche Prutis for every (kosher) Jew and all of klal yisroel as a whole.
The question of “well, what’s your SOLUTION then”, is exactly zionism at its core.
We Jews are allowed to (and must!) call out bad and reject bad behavior regardless of if we know how to solve the problem.
somejew in his previous post admitted that he does not have a solution for mass pikuach nefesh miyadi we collectively are facing
he nevertheless advocates in a psik reisha way for an option in which this mass pikuach nefesh should materialise chvsh
.
.in our torah – not sure about his ….
we are commanded to do everything in our power [besides the 3 hamurot] to avert pikach nefesh even for one individual
kal vachomer ben beno shel kal vachomer for mass pikuach nefesh
all of the above is simple and straightforward torah , clear even to a bar bei rav dechad yoma
.
.
.somejew , katan, ujm and flamingo are tirelessly advocating against the torah
and that on a site calling itself ‘yeshiva’ ….
they are no different to reform advocating for driving on shabbat to encourage shul attendance
which would never merit a place on a ‘yeshiva’ site …..
.
.If we do not know how to solve the problem — then it is pikuach nefesh and al pi torah we are commanded with lo ta’amod al dam reiacha
for each and every jew endangered
for each and every time the danger is stoppable.
.
.
.that adds up to a really huge amount of la’avin …
so there are an innumerable amount of la’avin commanding us to keep the medina intact and support it
because of innumerable pikuach nefesh
of innumerable yehudim
and innumerable situations for each and every yehudi
.
.
.if you would have a practical solution then those la’avin might fall away
therefore it is extremely important to see whether there is another solution or not
and also extremely important to see how durable the other solution is
..
the torah clearly commands us to look for solutions —- all the time
it is included in the hiyuv gamur of “lo ta’amod al dam re’acha” ….
.
.NK is Anti Torah. The Merolglim also were the gedolim of their generation. We saw what happened.
I don’t know how and frum Jew on this site can speak bad about Eretz Yisroel? The Torah clearly consideres you part of the Merolglim. Yes, you and the Rabbanim who you follow. End of story
@yankel-berel
In line with what many have said to you over and over: the situation in Eretz Yisroel is not pikiach nefesh. If it was pikiach nefesh, there would be a mass exodus of emigrants leaving the zionist borders right now. Additionally, there would be widespread campaigns in the Jewish world to raise funds to relocate those who don’t have their own means to escape the danger.The reality is that the Jews in Eretz Yisroel themselves don’t agree with your nonsense bogeyman of “pikiach nefesh”. The reality is that if any zionists currently running their evil empire decided to do tshiva and dismantle the state they have many options on how to make a safe transition for the jews and non-jews that reside currently under the zionist boot. That structured plan may or may not include most jews staying in EY or emigrating to other lands. However, all of those possibilities are better than one more jew dying because of today’s zionist wars
[I am also glossing over another absurd implication of your nonsense, that pikiach nefesh isn’t applicable when there is an obligation of y’harog v’al tavor. but, @yankel-berel, I know already that you are kofer in at least that part of Torah because you’ve chosen another religion called “zionism”]
I asked for sources. Where have you ever seen NK, many of whom live in EY, speak bad about EY? Please point to anything they have said or published and explain how their words are “speaking bad about Eretz Yisroel”.
@SomeJewInKnow,
They are uneducated so they don’t have seforim I can quote. However, their protesting cars always delegitimize Jewish presence as rulers. They want to hand over Israel to goyim which violates the Halacha. The fact they want other Jews to be harmed by their action shows they are not from the zera of Avroham Avinu.
somejew claims :
the situation in Eretz Yisroel is not pikiach nefesh. If it was pikiach nefesh, there would be a mass exodus of emigrants leaving the zionist borders right now.
—you obviously are missing the point
the reason why there is no ‘mass exodus’ is the result of the work of the IDF with the help from above
like the operating team saving the life of the patient with the help from above
the operating team is not allowed to stop it work even on shabbat because that is pikiach nefesh
likewise the minute the IDF stops its work , there will be
clear pikiach nefesh and a resulting mass exodus of those who can and have where to leave to …
those who don’t have papers , or where to go , or are old , sick or not fast enough … are liable to be
hacked to death — like the october 7 victims lo aleinu
this is the plain unvarnished reality
any ten year old child knows this
it is incumbent to be mehalel shabat to stop this from happening
as paskened in OC329
and where somejew’s non option of ‘running away’ is paskened there as not relevant at all
and hilul shabat is still mandated and so is the obvious fighting to defend innocents equally mandated
.
.those who are able to stop it from happening and do not do so
are over on lo ta’amod al dam rei’acha on every minute they are able to and do not
this is the real torah view on the current situation
no matter whether the original zionists were right or wrong at the time
.
.articulating this torah psak has no connection whatsoever with serving any supposed idol
on the other hand advocating for endangering masses of jews
on the basis of a hagadik maharal totally irrelevant to the immediate mass pikiach nefesh in front of us
and on top of that clearly contradicted by shulchan aruch YD 157
like somejew katan ujm and flamingo repeatedly do…
that is clear megaleh panim batorah shelo kahalacha and is playing with the lives of many millions
and totally reprehensible
..
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.